I have read in the comments from past posts, as well as on other sites, that more misinformation is being spread around at a very rapid pace. Please understand, we very much like discussion on this website, but stop the crude jokes and defamation that continue to pop up every weekend. We have now had to place "moderate comments" back on to keep under control the name calling on both sides of this issue.
For all of you EMS workers and nurse out there screaming at the top of your lungs that we (common individuals) do not understand the issue, please read on. For the rest of us "uneducated," read on as well because we might just all learn a little something.
Now, on to the facts of the most recent assertions that the city is throwing away our EMS coverage by going with someone other than Williamson EMS and TriStar is backing out of it's property negotiations because of cold feet...
"Clearing Up" more misinformation- Property Closing Date
I have personally placed a few phone calls to city officials and other individuals to ascertain if in fact TriStar has pushed back the closing date on the property until after July 26th (the CON hearing). That is absolutely not true. Chalk up another in the long line of lies from the opposition to this hospital.
Currently the only thing that stands between today and the closing is a historic civil war site study to be finished. It should be concluded in the next couple of weeks and should not hinder the closing process on the property in mid-July (the week PRIOR to the CON hearing).
"Clearing Up" more misinformation- EMS
Now, to all of you EMS folks talking about substandard care provided by an un-trained ambulance service, the lack of Fire Dept. involvement in the process of choosing a provider, and a general distaste for being left out of the process. Again, I have talked to a few city officials and this is how the process is moving forward...
1. The negotiations are currently ongoing and seem to be coming down to a couple of providers. Present in negotiation with each potential provider are:
* The city staff
* Spring Hill Fire Dept.
* HCA TriStar
2. Williamson EMS was asked to be a part of this process and DECLINED. Did everyone understand that? All of you EMS guys and Nurse, go check with your people on this one. Why did Williamson EMS decide NOT to participate in the discussion that would basically have a third party (TriStar) pay the county (Williamson EMS) to continue their service at an expanded level?
For all of you griping that the only adequate service in the area is Williamson EMS, please explain that one to us all. And while we are talking about ambulance service in Spring Hill, please explain to me that service agreement submitted a couple of months ago by Williamson County. In re-reading the bid, all they were doing was moving the EXISTING ambulance a few miles south from Thompson's Station to Spring Hill. How does that help the situation?
3. The providers being considered for this contract with the city and TriStar currently provide FULL EMS service to areas across the region in and out of Tennessee, but not currently IN middle Tennessee. They provide service in Texas, Louisiana (Tulane), parts of Tennessee including Memphis, Farragut TN, and on and on. For all of you that think you know what's going on, make a few calls for yourself and tell us all that what I am saying is untrue. Use your expertise to assist the city in making choices and providing care, not to be a propagandist. Take a deep breath and try to think about this without bias. If you find lies in what has been said, let me know and I promise you that they will be held accountable.
Now, I am sick of having to regulate posts on this site all the time due to personal attacks and crude jokes. Discuss and debate issues, and present FACTS!
Tuesday, June 27, 2006
"Clearing Up" more misinformation
Posted by Gorilla in the Corner at 2:18 PM
Labels: Spring Hill Hospital
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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: The information on this website is a series of personal opinions and is not meant to reflect an official position by the City of Spring Hill.
121 comments:
Thanks yet again to Gorilla for digging into the issues and presenting us with facts. In the last few weeks I have found that more and more people are interested in good, honest info about the situations concerning Spring Hill - and i am glad to see you continue to present that to us. Well done.
I have read the posts and as an emergency responder I have seen little bias or misinformation from the people in the ems field. What I have seen are some things being said that people do not want to hear so it is easy to dismiss them. Every time I have seen the issue of fire, ems or police debated it becomes a heated topic. The use of the word uneducated was probably not the right term to discribe the general public and in my case it was never intended to be an insult. The problem with emergency work is most of the public sees the lights and watches the television versions but until you put the uniform on and do the work you cannot know what really goes on. That also means that the majority of the public also cannot evaluate the details that make up the differences between ambulance services. That is just a fact not an insult. People know what they want but most do not know how to really achieve it, that is where people in this field could come in.
FACTS
First I have no financial concern with what service provides ems in spring hill. I work for the franklin fire dept and my wife already works in ems so my only concern is that what ever service provides ems will be coming to pick up my family in an emergency.
I have spoken with city officials to express my opinion and will continue to do so. My goal is to achieve the best possible ems service for my family and I am making every effort to be involved in the process.
As far as the negotiations go. It is not a negotiation if the terms are not open to all sides. Williamson is a hybrid system. They do recieve county funds to operate. You cannot subcontract county resources to be run by tri star anymore than you could allow wakenhut to run the spring hill fire department to cover the saturn plant.
The proposal that I read said nothing about moving the thompson station unit.
The comments about private services being second rate are based on experience which is something most people will never get unless they work for them. It does not matter where else a service works, here in middle tennessee they all only do convelescent work. If one of the measures of a service is equipment then I challenge anyone who wants to park a williamson unit and a unit from any private service in middle tennessee next to each other. Take the names off of the trucks and look at the equipment. Any one would be able to see which service spends more money to have the latest LIFE SAVING tech. I have worked for private services and also worked with williamson on emergencies so it is a fact when I say that no private service can match the equipment that williamson has at its disposal.
The other part of a service is the people. The only way to compare the people is to work on a convelescent unit and see the care being provided and then ride in with a williamson unit with a critical patient and see the work that they do. Once again not something most can or would want to do. It is a fact that most of the convelescent services pay less, with no benefits. The crews are people with no experience just trying to start in the field. I fell into this catagory. People that cannot get hired with emergency services because of ability. It takes ability to do emergency work and it is a fact that not everyone has it. People that are burned out on emergency work. People that are just part timers just trying to make extra money. I have also fallen into this catagory. It does not matter where the services operate to staff the spring hill units they will pull from the local work pool and none that I have ever seen pay enough to take medics from emergency services.
Private services operate for profit. The proposal from tri star states that they will not bill spring hill to operate. This is where all of the buisness people in the city come in. The service must make money to stay in buisness. To make money they must bring in more than they send out , correct. They will not spend large amounts of money to staff highly trained people with the latest expensive equipment and then allow it to sit and generate no income. Thats means that they will either spend less on equipment and staff or use the units for convelescent work to make money during the down time. The private services that I have worked for cut equipment to the very least that they had to have to operate. They also payed less did not send people to expensive training classes and offered no benefits. Once again this is fact. One of the private services that I worked for had the emergency contract for a county in tn. They did all of the above listed thing to save money. We were used to make non emergency runs to make money.
I have seen nothing about the spring hill fire department being left out of the negotations. It is a fact that they will not be able to respond to medical emergencies if williamson does not provide ems. The proposal from tri star says nothing about putting the fire dept under any private service's medical director. I saw one post talking about it would not matter who did ems because the fire dept was dispatched by spring hill. Who dispatches them does not matter. The fire dept goes on medical calls as a part of williamson ems, just as franklin, brentwood and all of the other fire depts in williamson county . They do not operate under their own medical control. If williamson pulls the medical director from the fire dept then the only way the fire dept can run medical calls is to hire a doctor, buy all of the equipment that is used, provide insurance for the firefighters. The cost to do this would wipe out all of the "savings that spring hill would have not paying tri star to operate". I went through the same tests that they had to go through to operate under the supervision of williamson ems. This is fact once again.
You said you wanted to talk facts there is a list of facts above so lets talk about them!!!
It is hard to present the facts when the posts start off with so many lies. As Chandler Anderson stated, you only have surface knowledge and thus stop when you get the answer you want because you don't know enough to dig deeper.
There is no sense in making personal attacks, and I support you keeping things under control.
As for EMS, the provider that everyone is talking about is LIFEGUARD ambulance service which operates in the area. They do operate EMS in other areas of the country and did apparently help during Katrina. However, the fact is that the service here isn't going to be provided by the services in the rest of the country. It is going to be provided by the service here. Not knocking them but they do not currently run EMS anywhere here. They are not currently providing training and Quality Assurance on the par as Williamson EMS. They provide inter facility transport for hospitals.
For anyone who thinks that just because they do it there they can do it here...look up Rural Metro and American Medical Response. The two largest ambulance companies in the United States provide EMS and private service in states all over the country. I worked R/M years back out of state. I worked in three of their offices including briefly here in Nashville. One was the hardest job I have ever had, and I learned more than anywhere else. We had a top notch staff and had a double digit cardiac save rate which (look it up) is remarkable. One was pretty slack and pretty disorganized. One was pretty much Mother, Jugs, and Speed ( the movie...look it up). The point is they all were under the same company and same "rules" but they were night and day.
EMS is a vital city service. A lot places forget that. Once a private , for profit business is involved it takes a very strict city to keep them in line. We already have top notch EMS and we will be screwing it up if they switch.
Now, the real question is what is WMC EMS doing turning down the city's offer?
Does Rural Metro provide EMS to any counties or cities in TN?
To anon 6/28@10:05
Yes Rural metro does ems in Knox County. My parents lived in Knox county and the service was so bad that they county wants to get away from them but the only way they can do it is to form a metro government with the city of Knoxville. Gorilla this is fact. I have also taken fire and ems classes with employees of rural metro and even they say rural metro is a low budget provider. They pay poorly will not fully staff their stations and use the cheapest equipment. Once again a fact. Rural metro was also run out of Scottsdale Arizona which was their corporate HQ. Scottsdale elected to pick up the costs of service instead of letting rural metro continue. I attended a conference with people who had been hired to replace rural metro so this is also a fact. We do not want a company that could not even keep the service in its home town.
anon 6/28/10:05
I forget to add a couple things about rural metro. When they lost scottsdale they tried to take over the fire and rescue from the rescue squad and the county stopped that because they could not beat the service. They also tried convelescent service in nashville and they could not make that float either. They have tried in vain to get set up in williamson for a long time. Also more facts.
Konx County, Blount County. Very good services. Also do fire in Knox County.
Did anyone find out why Williamson EMS decided not to be a part of the process?
To anon 6/28@12:49
I do not know what you consider good service but I would not be to quick to brag about rural metro. For one thing I know that they refuse to even try to meet NFPA 1710 standards on fire staffing. Instead of 4 men per engine and ladder the engineer at the rural metro station near my parents house in Knox county told me that normal staff was 2 men on an engine and 1 on the ladder. Fact..
Knox county has tried to get rid of them but rural mento has held fire protection over their heads. Knox county does not have the money to start fire and ems services that is why they wanted to work out a metro system with knoxville to fall under their fire protection. fact. unlike knox county Scottsdale choose to suck it up and pay the money to take all of the services from rural metro. fact. Rural Metro is a predatory company and once established they would turn their attention to other ems services and the fire departments in this area. Once they are established in an area they set the costs cities have to pay and then the only choice cities have then is to pay increasing costs or eat the entire costs to start their own services from the ground up.
What would the Emergency Medical Services Division, Tennessee Department of Health or
TASA – Tennessee Ambulance Association say about these EMS companies?
Yeah but it feels good to have a new EMS service. It would make us a real city and we would be validated if we had them. WHo cares about the truth, it is all about how you feel.
"Yeah but it feels good to have a new EMS service. It would make us a real city and we would be validated if we had them"
W
hat a crock. I don't care about living in a real city or being validated. I want to know that if my son falls down the stairs or my father has a heart attack (God forbid) I can call 911 and get an ambulance to my house quickly that is staffed by competent EMS professionals. PLEASE stop the attacks on citizens of Spring Hill who are just trying to do what is good for their town. Part of the decision making process is to get as much info as possible, and if everytime someone disagrees with you you attack them, then you're just showing that your POV is not worth listening to. What is the point you are trying to make with those comments? Really, I'd like to know, and I'm also curious to see if you can answer my question without attacking me. Thanks.
To spring hill mom
I commend you for what you said, finaly someone who understands this debate is about care, not feeling validated. This is what the emergency workers that post on this site have been saying. We all have tried to post facts and been accused of bias or insulting people, just because people do not like the facts presented. If you have questions this could be a good way to get information just ask the emergency workers for answers. If you want more information go an ems station and ask the people in person I am sure they would be glad to help. Look at the equipment and you will see that they are telling the truth.
stay involved and keep asking queswtions
Anonymous @ 08:13:
The only accusations and name calling is coming from the folks at 'the other site' who seem to be willing to blame the Gorilla, the Preacher, and City Hall for all of the world's problems. Is it merely a coincidence that once they got in contact with some 'influential' local know it alls, their quacky call for 'Duda for Mayor' quickly vanished and a lawsuit gets sent to City Hall?
The fact is, the ambulance issue will be resolved and Spring Hill residents will have quality emergency care. Remember, before TriStar entered the picture with a proposed hospital, the last formal offer from any entity was from MRH (who had side-stepped WMC, by the way). In the 'offer', MRH asked for the City to BUY the ambulance AND pay for the staffing of the service.
Proof?
That is something that probably wasn't included in your talking points given to you by WMC.
With TriStar's proposal, Spring Hill sets the equipment protocol, the staffing credentials, and determines the third-party provider. I heard that Spring Hill asked WMC over a month ago if they were interested in being the third-party provider and WMC said 'no thank you'. Fire department worries about not being able to administer aid as first responders are unfounded, as they'll still have an MD to operate under, regardless of the provider.
Facts also show that the several 'anonymous' posters on this blog that support Williamson EMS all come from no more than 2 IP Addresses.
Your comments continue to include valuable information that must be considered by the folks at City Hall. Keep them coming, or even send them to Ciy Hall directly using Gorilla's links at right ==>, but please refrain from the attitude that 'the sky is falling' because Williamson EMS may not be the EMS provider for all of Spring Hill. From what I have heard, that decision came from WMC, not Williamson EMS, and certainly not City Hall.
To silverback
This is good, some discussion. First my points were not given to me by wmcems. One thing to keep in mind is I work for a department that has been at odds with ems over some issues.
Who is the fire depts Md that is their medical director? This could have major ramifactions in the rest of williamson county.
I already have contacted city hall with my opinions and infromation. As I have said befor I am trying to be as involved as I can.
Part of the problem with using williamson as a third party provider is that they recieve county tax money as funding. You cannot use county funded resources to be used as third party for a private company that will make a profit from those resources. As a williamson county tax payer I would have to raise hell about that and would not be the only one.
Spring Hill will want control over staffing and sops. The problem is that the two ambulances in spring hill will not be the only ones the service runs. The sops cannot be set for only two units and not all of them. Spring hill can set minimum standards they want but I have never seen any service that can have different guidlines for only part and not all. This would be like the fire dept having different staffing guildlines for only one station and not the others.
The sky will not fall if wmcems does not run in spring hill but having seen with my own eyes the difference between the the idea and reality of private ems, it will not be a good thing.
anonymous said:
"Part of the problem with using williamson as a third party provider is that they recieve county tax money as funding. You cannot use county funded resources to be used as third party for a private company that will make a profit from those resources."
Who said anything about making a profit? If MRH can make a proposal asking the city to fund an ambulance operation in Spring Hill, and Williamson EMS can make the same proposal, why can't TriStar give the city the funds, then the city fund the operational costs to the county?
Silverback
I has to be about profit for tri star and what ever private service they contract with. The tri star proposal said nothing about giving any money to the city. They are even wanting the city to provide buildings that spring hill must make ready at the cities expense. Tri star also said that they would not bill the city to operate the ambulances. Tri star and any private ambulance service in middle tn are for profit companies no exceptions. If they do not make money they go out of buisness. Private ambulance services make money by running as many convelescent runs as possible each day while spending as little as possible. If the units do not move they make no money. When buisness slows down they shut down units and send crews home.
Both williamson and maury recieve county tax money to operate, if they did not they could not survive only doing emergency work. Emergency services - fire , police and ems are burdens that tax payers just have to pay. they cost money not make money.
My understanding of the maury proposal was for spring hill to pay to operate the unit in spring hill. I do not know the exact amounts but I would guess that this was to off set the costs of the new ambulance. Thompson station does the same thing with the rescue squad they provide money to help the squad provide service. The amounts are far less than it would cost to have there own fire department.
****I HEARD that Spring Hill asked WMC over a month ago if they were interested in being the third-party provider and WMC said 'no thank you'....***
not fact here, you said "I HEARD"..only hearsay.so before you start blasting get FACTS..
Just so you know Williamson and Maury EMS provide excellent EMS care right NOW. If you have specific issues with what you have now let someone know.Better yet why dont they get posted here and I will personally address them. There cannot be a solution if there is not a problem. All I have heard so far is on a few selective calls that response time is an issue.Your fire department has been trained to deal with ANYTHING in those few minutes that it takes an ambulance to get there. So lets hear specific problems with your EMS system as it stands NOW. I have worked both systems and know the quality. A private service will not be able to provide the quality. But hey, if they can, and as you say the city of Spring Hill will decide what is quality...then the challenge is there. A private service will NOT provide better quality. I would love to challenge anyone to that.
Scott Storey
Paramedic
I have said this before,
We as EMS services (on both sides of the line) can live without Spring Hill, but I do not think that Spring Hill can live without us...
Silverback and I had a discussion going. One of the points he brought up about profit got me to thinking.
Maybe someone out there can clear up a question that I have. I am sure that the share holders and owners of hca/tri star and lifeguard or what ever service they contract with are doing this venture to make money. All of these companies survive by making a profit. I am just a dumb old fireman but the numbers just do not make sense. I ran my own buisness as an owner operator of a tractor trailer so I know how tight profit margins are when you have vehichles that you must run to make money, maintain and fill up with fuel.
Having said that how can a company that by its own proposal will not charge the city any money to operate survive? Also how does tri star make money out of this deal they do not own ambulances?
Will They-
-Try to operate by insurance payments from emergencies alone?
(doubtful, not enough runs in spring hill to pay for the service.)
-Run convelescent runs (defeats having two emergency units in spring hill)
-cut operating costs - staff pay and benefits, equipment etc
-charge higher rates to transport patients
-run at a loss (not good for the share holders)
-or are they taking a risk betting on the con and taking those profits from the hospital to pay for the ems service.
When I look at the money issue apart from the patient care issue I wonder why the city is using tri star as a broker when the city could directly negotiate with any service they wanted to for ems coverage. Maybe someone can answer these questions and explain this.
I think the disconnect in our discussion comes from the assumption that this has to be a profit making venture for TriStar. The City officials I have spoken with all say that this is a tremendous liability and that TriStar is providing this to give back to the community.
Silverback
You are talking to somebody that makes a living from community service. I did not get into the fire dept to get rich(got the paycheck stubs to prove it). You are very correct ems is a huge financial liability. I hope this is about giving something to this communtiy but I just do not see how a company can run something at a loss for very long. Like it or hate but money must rear its ugly head at sometime.
Also I have enjoyed our discussion you seem to be an intelligent person that really cares about this city. We can have different views on this issue but I hope the city achieves the goal that I feel we both want , that of the best ems care out there.
What ever happened to common sense. Nothing is ever free. The guise of "giving back to the community" assumes that we are all niave and believe that a FOR PROFIT is going to give us something for FREE. Come on folks, do you really think HCA is going to give away money and service for altruistic purposes?
"Come on folks, do you really think HCA is going to give away money and service for altruistic purposes?"
That's exactly what I'm saying...
Belmont University Supports Spring Hill
Anonymous @ 15:42, we are on the same page. Let's get the message across to those who can make these decisions...
"Silverback is precious said...
What ever happened to common sense. Nothing is ever free. The guise of "giving back to the community" assumes that we are all niave and believe that a FOR PROFIT is going to give us something for FREE. Come on folks, do you really think HCA is going to give away money and service for altruistic purposes?"
The short answer would be yes!
I am not sure how many profitable companies that you have worked for, but altruism or not, cash needs to be unloaded somewhere or that profit will be taxed. Keeping "customers" happy usually tends to help business as well. I think that a for profit company would have no problem giving back to the community to assist in a variety of things. Go look into the list of donations from TriStar to various communities around Tennessee and you will find that they are quite giving.
This ambulance service (whatever the cost to make it first rate) is a cost that TriStar is willing to lose outright to help other areas of business and THIS community.
Happy 4th of July weekend everyone!
Silverback
I think we are on the same page as far as the end result. At my core I am opposed to for profit companies in emergency work in any form, fire,ems, or police. I have seen more times when it does not work than when it does. I am cynical by nature made more so by my fire experience. I question most things to some degree but I am also open enough to admit when I am proven wrong by the facts.
With that in mind I feel that the city should form some type of citizens group of people with emergency experience to help this process achieve the best results. I am not so arrogant as to expect the city to ask me for advice or even ask for my participation but their are many people that live in spring hill with alot of emergency experience they could use. This could be one way to make sure that city hall asks the real hard questions of tri star and ensure that we get real answers.
In the end that is what must happen. We cannot just take any service at face value we must question the why and how of any proposal without passion or politics. Then when all of the honest answers are in we can pick the best service to provide ems.
Spring Hill cannot live w/o ems, but ems can live without spring hill?
Well we small folks in spring hill are already living w/o ems.
THAT'S THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!1
The argument that there is NO EMS in Spring Hill is getting really old. Please tell the truth. There is a MRH and a WMC ambulance in Spring Hill. The city of Spring Hill does not generate enough business to keep these two busy, so MRH sends theirs on a convalescent call every now and again. If you want more service, start using it. Here is an idea. rather than complain about driving 15 miles, call an ambulance which would transport you 15 miles in 10 or less minutes, all the while providing treatment.
to anon 7/2@00:30
Those types of blanket statements are exactly what is not needed in this debate and that is the point. You may not agree with the policies and politics involved but to say that anyone in spring hill is living without ems coverage shows a lack of knowledge of the emergency field. That comment is also an insult to the crews both the fire department and both ems services. The few maury county paramedics that I know are dedicated professionals as well as the fire fighters in spring hill. I can asure that they are just as frustrated as the citizens and can do little to change some things. I have worked with the williamson county crews for many years in the field and they are one of the top rated ems services in the state for good reason. Please if you have concerns be involved but choose your words more carefuly.
"I can asure that they are just as frustrated as the citizens and can do little to change some things"
What exactly would they change? Why are they frustrated?
Spring hill mom
One of the biggest complaints I keep hearing is with Maury ems using their units for transfers or convelescent runs causing longer response times for emergencies. I can promise that the crews do not want to run those types of calls and not be in their district to run emergencies. It is frustrating to them but those are decisions that are made well above the level that they work at. That is why I said to say there is no ems coverage insults the paramedics as well as spring hill's fire fighters that are trying to do the best job they can with policies they cannot control.
To ANON 02 July, 2006 00:30
Spring Hill cannot live w/o ems, but ems can live without spring hill?
Well we small folks in spring hill are already living w/o ems.
THAT'S THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!1
ANON
WHY DON T YOU LIST SOME SPECIFICS AS TO WHY YOU THINK YOU HAVE NO EMS. YOU HAVE AN AWESOME SYSTEM IN PLACE NOW. I WAS ON DUTY THERE LAST WEEK AND WE RAN A FEW CALLS IN YOUR CITY LIMITS.SO YOU DO HAVE EMS IN SPRING HILL.PUT SOME FACTS ON HERE AS TO WHY YOU DO NOT HAVE EMS!!!!!
LET'S TRY TO ANSWER THEM...
SCOTT STOREY EMT-P
WHY DON T YOU LIST SOME SPECIFICS AS TO WHY YOU THINK YOU HAVE NO EMS. YOU HAVE AN AWESOME SYSTEM IN PLACE NOW. I WAS ON DUTY THERE LAST WEEK AND WE RAN A FEW CALLS IN YOUR CITY LIMITS.SO YOU DO HAVE EMS IN SPRING HILL.PUT SOME FACTS ON HERE AS TO WHY YOU DO NOT HAVE EMS!!!!!
LET'S TRY TO ANSWER THEM...
SCOTT STOREY
Well Scott,
Lets see:
Neapolis has an EMS station.
Thompson's station has an ems station.
If Columbia and Franklin had just done the right thing to start with, they would not be in this mess. I think Columbia, is afraid that Spring Hill will over take them in population, business, etc.
Spring Hill is already more progressive. No doubt about that. Columbia can only dream of the growth and publicity that Spring Hill obtains on a weekly basis. Columbia has become the city of "no". Just say no. Columbia and Franklin, mind your own business.
Are we in the third grade here? Scott asked you to give examples of why you feel you do not have EMS coverage, and instead yougive him garbage about how Columbia is afraid of Spring Hill. Also the two trucks you mention are the two trucks that serve Spring Hill. I guess based on your logic Spring Hill does not have a governor, a president, or a SUpreme Court either, since these are not physically in Spring Hill. Who else are these trucks serving besides Spring Hill. I am embarassed to say that I live in Spring Hill when I see comments like this. The truth is we have excellent EMS coverage. We have hard working men and women who do a fine job. A MINORITY of citizens have started this campaign to get a new ambulance service not a MAJORITY. The troublemakers need to find somehwere else to live if you are so afraid for your health. Move next door to Vanderbilt in a condo. You chose to move to SPring Hill, you were not forced to do so. You knew that there was no hospital when you came. I am sure that you thought living in "the country" would be fun, and now you are trying to turn "the country" into a big city. Those of us who have lived here our whole lives do not want that.We like the small town atmosphere of Spring Hill. We like being able to walk through town without having an asthma attack from the fumes of your foriegn made cars. We have gotten along with Columbia and Franklin our whole lives. We tolerate your requests for big box stores. We tolerate your forcing us to hear about the way it was up North and we listen to you run us down for being from the SOuth.We put up witha lot from "you guys" in your pink shirts and with your metrosexual stylings. We have no otehr choice. However stop speaking for the MAJORITY of citizens when you are clearly the MINORITY. Scott, Allen, Mark, and all the other folks at WMC EMS thanks for all you do. Danny, Will, Jerry, and all the others from MRH, thanks for all you do as well. The MAJORITY of citizens are not unhappy with your services, please know that.There are a few people who have nothing better to do than criticize the hardest working men and women in our county because they do not understand what you do. This too shall pass and they will fade into the background where they belong. The support for this private EMS is not unanimous, nor is the support for this hospital unanimous. However we realize that it is not our decision to make, so we will let the due process take its course. Our current system works, and the people who will hear this know that. Again, thank you EMS for all that you do.
To anon 7/4@ 0100
If that is your explaination for the "no ems coverage" comment it just further shows a lack of real knowledge of the ems field. I believe scott was looking for facts related to response times etc instead all I see is a rant about how Franklin and Columbia are jealous of Spring hill. You managed to name the locations of the ems units and that is the only thing I see even related to ems.
As far as the stations are concerned ems stations are located based on many facors including but not limited to geographical areas, response times, populations, call volume. They are not the property of those ares they are also not city organizations but are county services. Franklin and Columbia do not have control of either service.
To say there is no ems coverage is a severe distortion of the facts and your argument just discredits that further. By that logic brentwood, franklin and columbia do not have ems coverage either. For that matter the only city that owns its own ems units and has ems is metro nashville.
Well, the site erased my comment so let me start again...To add to this debate I would like to ask about the Spring Hill Fire Department. I don't know their stats, but I don't believe they are all EMTs. Recent studies show that it is quality Basic level care is more important to survival rates than Advanced (paramedic) level care. In fact, cities that had INCREASED time to paramedics on scene had better survival rates than those with DECREASED times. Why? Because BLS care is more important in those first few minutes than ALS care. The QUALITY of the paramedics arriving is more important than the QUICKNESS of their arrival. Strong BLS followed by Quality ALS will provide better care. To that end, how many automated defibrillators does the city own? Are there AEDs on all fire engines? There should be AEDs on all fire department vehicles and even better in all police cars too. All fire fighters should be EMT basics not just first responders. All police should be first responders. All city employees should learn CPR. AEDs should be in all city buildings. There should be a staff member in the fire department who coordinates AED/CPR programs to other large businesses in the city by working on grants to cover costs. Even with 2 ambulances in the city there will be times when there is a delay. There are always some delays if you have 2 units or 20 units. Plan for it. Tristar could use the money for the private services toward equipment and training and then actually make a difference as opposed to pretending to make one.
Neapolis has an EMS station.
Thompson's station has an ems station....04 July, 2006 01:00
ANON,
First let me say thank you to the support I have seen from other posters. To answer these specific questions..."The neapolis station in Maury County". This EMS station actually came about when the Saturn Plant came into the picture. Saturn had huge financial interest for the station (Columbia Fire Included) to protect its interests. Saturn also did the same for the Mount Pleasant Fire Station located at the airport due to the increased interest to their company in relations to the air traffic now coming in. The neapolis station answers calls to the Spring Hill area as a plus. But the origin still reamins with the Saturn company. Now it was not called the SATURN unit, since county tax dollars help subsidize (SP???) the budget. It is used as Maury Regional EMS sees fit. But that unit was in place well before Spring Hill was even bigger than Mount Pleasant. Now as for the Thompson Station unit. It was established back in 2000 i believe and was placed there due to logistics and building availability. the county ownes the property and it was able to utilize an existing structure to place the unit. It is logistically beneficial to all of Williamson County. That unit can utilize Thompson Station Rd to reach areas of the county that normally are time consuming in reaching. It also has quick access to Columbia Pike and now 840. That unit was placed due to demographic and call volume studies that were in place a few years prior to its opening. It is LESS THAN ONE MILE from the city limits of Spring HIll. It serves the citizens of the area not just the citizens of Spring Hill. 95% of the calls that are in the city limits of the Williamson County side are answered by this unit in five minutes or less. I still see no significant problems here. Your comments would suggest that the two ambulances that are placed to cover the Spring HIll area will not come into the city of Spring Hill. The is the furthest from the truth. I hope this answers thiese concerns...
OH BY THE WAY..
Go under Tennessee Department of Health Division of EMS Rules and Regulations section and check out page 62 of 79. It shows the ambulance classifications. they are as follows..
GENERAL RULES CHAPTER 1200-12-1
(Rule 1200-12-1-.14, continued)
June, 2006 (Revised) 62
(a) Ambulance Services
1. Class A - Advanced Life Support Ambulance Services shall conduct operations of
ambulances to provide capabilities for advanced life support or special critical care on
ninety-five percent (95%) of emergency runs within their service area, staffed to provide
twenty-four hour service. All ambulances shall be equipped at a minimum as a basic life
support unit. Staffed ambulances shall be equipped to provide advanced life support.
2. Class B - Extended Life Support Ambulance Services shall conduct operations of
ambulances to provide capabilities for extended life support on ninety-five percent (95%)
of emergency runs within their service area, staffed to provide twenty-four hour service.
All ambulances shall be equipped as a minimum as a basic life support unit.
3. Class C - Basic Life Support Ambulance Services shall conduct operations of
ambulances to provide capabilities for basic life support on ninety-five percent (95%) of
emergency runs within their service area, staffed to provide twenty-four hour service. All
ambulances shall be equipped as a minimum as a basic life support unit.
4. Class D - Minimum Standard Ambulance Services shall conduct operations in
compliance with minimum standards for ambulance services, staffed to provide twentyfour
hour service. All ambulances shall be equipped as a minimum as a basic life support
unit.
Now look under this link..
http://www2.state.tn.us/health/ems/ServicesByCounty2.asp
This will show all of the private and public services in Davidson County. This is the pool where HCA will get your service from. The HCA headquarters are in Nashville. NONE of those services are Class A with exception of Nashville Fire Dept. Williamson and Maury are class A.They serve you now. I hope this helps...
Scott Storey EMTP
Continued fine work Scott.
What about Rural Metro in Knox and Shelby counties?
Class A
Yes Rural Metro does run EMS in these Areas. However, Memphis Fire Department run EMS in the city of Memphis ( a majority of the call volume and population). I am not sure about Knoxville. I do think that Knoxville had CONTRACTUAL issues with them that prevented the city from parting ways. I will have to research that though. And yes they are considered class A in their jurisdictions because they are the only ones providing 911 service. they have the experienced folks working for them.You will not see the personnel move from knoxville or memphis to work here. Also you will not be able to pull the experienced providers from MRH or WMC to get them to work for a private company. It just will not happen. That is the nature of our business.
The HCA facility in Rutherford county did NOTHING to change EMS there. There were several private services in that county to choose from already functioning. But you can look at Ruhterford County on the Tennessee Website just as you did with Knox and Shelby counties. Rutherford EMS or a support service funded by Rutherford county are the only Class A there. Feel free to look at several counties.Rarely , if only VERY few, use private services to provide EMS.
I am telling you, the EMS you now have is top notch,compare county to county (keepiong in mind population sizes now not projected). Anything HCA provides you will be second rate. Also if a provate service does enter Spring Hill, Communications ans the 911 system as far as EMS goes will have to be restructured. I am sure there will be bugs and issues to work out then that will ultimately increase morbitity and mortality. I hope this helps. I look forward to more questions and comments.
***An EMS change will be EXTREMELY HARMFUL****
Scott
NONE of those services are Class A with exception of Nashville Fire Dept.
This is Rural Metro, hence the name. Rural providers from Nashville Fire. Come on.
I wouldn't tell the citizens of Farragut, TN (similar size and growth as Spring Hill) that their primary emergency medical service provider is 'second rate'.
Check it out, they think so much of Rural Metro that they contract them for their Fire Department as well.
Thanks for the continued information, but at some point you do have to recognize that Private Service does not always equal Second Rate. Consider this fact, if HCA is committed to spending the money (whatever the cost) and Rural Metro is committed to bringing in a top rate service (whatever the cost because it is HCA's dime), why would it be 'extremely harmful' to the citizens of Spring Hill?
I have read all of your posts and they seem to come down to Private - BAD, Non-proft - GOOD. That may be the case currently, but at the right price anything is possible, agreed?
MDs, medical equipment and medical authority provided to the City of Spring Hill Fire Department are all issues that you have raised which can be addressed. But in your world, only Non-Profit EMS providers can provide the level of care that Spring Hill citizens deserve.
Here's the bottom line... Currently a 911 operator has to determine which county a call is coming from before dispatch. If Neapolis is on a convalescence call, another is dispatched from Columbia. If Thompson's Station is on another call, another is dispatched from Franklin. Clearly, the commitment by Williamson EMS to save EMS service for emergencies and effective management of backup units results in much more effective response times.
HCA has stepped up and offered to provide a solution (even offering to fund WMC as the third party provider). A third party service may be the best solution after all.
This city is a suburb of Knoxville which is in KNOX COUNTY...We have already established this........I want PROOF that since they contract that they are HAPPY with Rural Metro...
Again you will NOT be able to pull the employees from this area to work here...RURAL METRO is the only 911 service in KNOX COUNTY. A private service HERE WILL BE SECOND RATE. I never said it was second rate if it were already in place. They have the expoerienced providers working for them, you will not have the full time staff here quit their jobs to work for rural metro.
Also I spoke to one of the services in Knox county by phone and Rural Metro runs convolescent calls as well as emergencies in knox county...
Scott
Silverback,
What makes you a credible poster? Are you involved with EMS? What background do you have that gives you credibility?
Here is a statement from rural metro's website about their business strategy...
Expand Within Existing Service Areas. We believe we can maximize our return on the infrastructure we have built in our existing operating areas by continuing to expand our services in our existing operating and contiguous areas. A key component of our same-area growth strategy is in areas where we are the 911 emergency transport provider to leverage our visibility and stature as the community's 911 emergency transport provider TO COMPETE FOR AND WIN NON-EMERGENCY TRANSPORTATION BUSINESS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND SURROUNDING AREAS.(oh there is a shocker from a for profit company) This strategy increases utilization of ambulances through a balanced growth of both EMERGENCY AND NON EMERGENCY MEDICAL TRANSPORTATION SERVICES.
AGAIN THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM RURAL METRO'S WEB SITE. BOY AREN'T THEY DEDICATED TO YOUR EMERGENCY NEEDS. LET'S SEE..OH WAIT WE DONT DO THOSE CONVO CALLS IN WILLIAMSON DO WE. AND IF THEY ARE SO LIKED WHY WAS A COMPETETOR CONSIDERED TO PROVIDE SERVICE TO KNOX COUNTY IN APRIL OF 2002?
ok i will stop shouting. Be safe out there.
Scott
here is the link to check it out for yourselves...
http://www.ruralmetro.com/about/businessstrategy.htm
Silverback
I still feel we want the same end result but regardless of tri star's money rural metro is a bad choice from experience. Refer to comments under this post 6/28 @11;54,12:04 and 14:02. the company has had alot of problems in some of the areas they provide service in. Their fire staffing in knox county is not only not nfpa compliant but endangers lives. You cannot fight a fire when you send only 4 or 5 people on a first alarm. Franklin sends 14 on a first alarm and it does not take long for us to get overworked. This staffing is not just confined to knox county but reflects the outlook of this company. If that is our choice we need to keep looking.
Scott,
I am always interested to hear your opinions about various sides of this particular discussion. Although I disagree with your opinion a lot of the time, I believe that you are one of the few outspoken people involved in this discussion that would be interested in HELPING the City's current position and not trying to submarine the best interests of the citizens at all costs like some others that post here.
Having said that---
IF Williamson EMS is the only acceptable choice in your mind, why are they not wanting to be involved in the process at this point? The City has been BEGGING for years for expanded service and now there is someone in the picture (TriStar) that is willing to foot the ENTIRE bill. It cannot be an issue of money because Williamson county would not be responsible for paying a dime to improve service to its citizens in Spring Hill.
Bingo, Gorilla!
By the way 19:30,
I am not in EMS. But my gowing knowledge comes a few well placed calls/emails to city officials and those that are in EMS.
Oh, and Scott too.
If Tri-Star is willing to donate an EMS unit to Spring Hill, will that unit or units be dedicated to emergency services or will also be used to make convolescent calls? If the donated units are allowed to make convolescent calls then there is a lower percentage chance of a unit being available for an emergency.
when your knowledge comes from a "few well placed calls" to the people who are trying to steam roll these ambulances in here, you may want to reconsider your point of view.
hey gorilla
I just talked to scott and we both agree on this. I think I was just insulted. I know that I am just an old fire fighter and we are not always the sharpest people around, after all the world to us is something red you spray water on. I thought I had been involved in some constructive discussions with silverback and others and presented some real facts based on my experience. I had no idea that I was " trying to submarine the best interest of the citizens". I hope that is not how my comments have been viewed because I am a citizen too.
To all of the readers I just wanted to spark some discussion and maybe share some of my experience. I am no U Boat commander.
As General George Patton said " If everybody is thinking alike then nobody is thinking"
signed "ole fire fighter"
You know what, I am tired of the so called majority acting like babies. I stated a couple of days ago, why we do not have ems facilities in our city.
WE DO HAVE police, fire, etc. in our city, run by our city, financed by our city, etc.
What are you ems boys so afraid of?
I know why the Neapolis stattion was built. Yeah, Saturn probably paid for it? Well maybe not, since the city of Columbia was taxed on their water system, to pay for Saturn's water.
Enough of that.
Again, we want our own EMS!
Anonymous said... To anon 7/4@ 0100 If that is your explaination for the "no ems coverage" comment it just further shows a lack of real knowledge of the ems field. I believe scott was looking for facts related to response time....As far as the stations are concerned ems stations are located based on many facors including but not limited to geographical areas, response times, populations, call volume.... To say there is no ems coverage is a severe distortion of the facts... For that matter the only city that owns its own ems units and has ems is metro nashville.
EMS stations are located because of response times etc. Oh really, When Saturn was announced Columbia in their wisdome extended their city limits in a small strip up the Nashville hwy, as close to Spring Hill as possible. Of course, what they really wanted was for Saturnt to actually be in the city limits of Columbia.
Now, lets just put a fire station right outside of Saturns door. Had nothing to do with response times, demographics, etc.
You dont' know what you are talking about
Knox County hates rural metro so much, they have only used them for 25 years.
"Rural/Metro has served the emergency service needs of Knox County and its citizens for more than two decades, and we are proud to continue providing this vital service well into the future. We are also gratified to know we have earned the respect and confidence of Knox County community leaders and others who value the high level of care and protection that Rural/Metro deliver."
Rural/Metro Ambulance has provided emergency and non-emergency ambulance transportation services in Knox County since 1985. Additionally, Rural/Metro Fire Department has met the fire protection needs of its Knox County customers for more than 25 years. The Company employs more than 500 medical transportation and fire service professionals who respond to nearly 80,000 calls for assistance throughout the county each year.
turf wars, its all about my turf, and my money. To hell with whether, and how the citizens of spring hill are served the best.
to anon 7/6 @ 00:25 , 00:40 , 00:44 and 00:50
You were busy. You pass yourself off as an expert on fire and ems so first I would ask you what are your credentials in this field. I only have 15 years in the fire service as well as experience with convelescent and emergency ambulances. I am certified as an emt iv , taken classes in phtls. I am fire fighter 1 and 2, fire instructure and fire officer certified. I could go on but this is not a resume. So I find it hard for you to tell me that I do not know what I am talking about.
You sure are hostile against columbia and saturn too bad that has no bearing on the ems issue. I tried to tell you that no cities own their ems coverage except nashville. Go talk to Alan or mark at williamson and find out how they decide on ems station locations. They will tell you about response times, call volumes, response districts just like i did but they only run one of the top rated ems services in tennessee so I guess they do not know what they are talking about either.
You say we want to own our own ems, guess what even with tri star the units will not be owned by spring hill. The units will not say spring hill on the side you will have the same type of coverage just with different names on the ambulances.
You talk about rural metro. First you claim they run 80,000 runs a year. How many are fire calls. According to their website the latest survey posted shows about 12,000 fire calls. The rest must be ems calls. How many of those are convelescent calls (you do know the difference between those and emergencies). Add Knoxville fire calls about 15,000 emergencies for the same time with half being ems runs included on rural metros total and the numbers still do not add up. Nashville is a larger and busier dept and they only run about 70,000 to 80,000 a year. Until you attend classes and conferences with employees from rural metro and get the real facts of their service you should not rely on their website for your information. If they are soo good why did Scotsdale AZ, their corporate hq drop their service in favor of a city fire and ems service? Answer that one.
You call others babies but it seems to me that you sound a little like a child wanting a toy without knowing what you are asking for. In my case how can you say this is a turf war about money. I am a lieutenant with a fire dept in another city that has no financial dog in this hunt. I am a resident of spring hill so the city is my turf in that regard and I am trying to protect.
Before you direct your rants at others you should drop the hostility and take time to find out about emergency work.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
I'm curious on something:
There has been the mention (a number of times) that a private/for-profit institution will cut corners where ever they can to save $$$ so they can generate a profit/larger profit.
Now, not for profit/county funded entities don't exactly have an "unlimited budget" to work with, who's to say they won't "cut corners" due to lack of resources? They are also susceptible to budget cuts as well which could affect what funds they have to work with to provide the best service possible.
I think it's a matter of using what you have to it's fullest extent and being as efficient as possible without adversely affecting care for either regardless.
Just a general question, nothing more.
Not to mention the fact that "for profit" companies tend to maximize equipment and make the most efficient use of all facilities at their disposal. I have been around profit and not for profit hospitals all my life and each have their nice benefits and flaws --- and both are pretty equally benefitial and flawed.
derekb
After some of the venom posted by some on here it is nice to see someone contribute intelligent comments about this issue. TO you and gorilla both I will say that I cannot talk about the pros and cons of hospitals. I will be the first to say that I do not know anything about them and anything I contributed would sound uneducated.
Having said that I can talk a little about differences in the field. You are right that public services in many parts of the state and country do operate under threat of constant budget cuts. In some places police, fire and ems are the first things to be cut. There are also many instances were private sector companies can and do work more effeciently with less money than public bureaucracy. The cities and counties in this area are the exception to the rule. Nobody has an unlimited budget but they have pretty lavish budgets. That makes it hard for any company that has to be concerned about profit margin to compete. I will give you an example, Franklin fire just ordered a new ladder truck at a cost of about $600.000. It is a state of the art unit that is designed to operate in the part of the city it will be stationed at. no expense was spared on this truck. That is the blessing of this whole area not just franklin, the public services can buy top of the line equipment and pay salaries that for profit services do not.
What people must remember is that in some ways emergency work goes against normal buisness logic. You have to spend lots of money for something that sits and generates no income waiting for an emergency that you cannot schedule. If the emergency comes you had better have the best possible equipment and in some cases you better have that one piece that has sat around for months not being used but is now a life or death matter.
The private ambulances in this area operate alot like trucking companies. They schedule the runs to keep all of their ambulances moving all day, when they sit they make no money. They do not try to compete with the county services on pay or benefits, in fact they offer none. They hire who will work for the least possible pay buy used equipment and try to control costs to maxamize profits. That is good buisness but bad practice in emergency work.
sorry this is soooo long, hope It helped answer your question
be safe all
ole fire fighter
That explains why you are the expert at surface knowledge. You cannot understand healthcare by osmosis.
As for profit companies cutting corners and government doing the same thing there is a big difference...Example. I worked for a private EMS service out of state that provided EMS for a city of 250,000 people. We covered that population with 4 full time units and 1 part time unit. Why? Because we needed to make a profit. When that service was replaced with a government service the number of ambulances doubled. Why? Because they just had to break even not make money. Now, I work in Nashville and yes our budget is fixed. However, they find a way to cover costs that are vital. We get the equipment we have to have day in and day out. We have lost money on EMS for years because so many can not pay their bills. However, the city continues to provide the service because it is our purpose to provide care...not to make money. A private service would have cut costs by cutting staff or trucks, or even left the area by now.
Can anyone answer the question, if Tri-Star does agree to place EMS units in Spring Hill are those units going to be dedicated to emergency calls only. If Tri-Star has the option of doing convalescence runs then the citizens of Spring Hill will not be gaining a better EMS system. When an EMS unit is engaged in making these non-emergency calls, what happens when an actual emergency occurs? The person needing medical care will have to wait longer to receive medical attention. The bottom line is the in the event of an emergency who is going to be there to provide life saving interventions. Williamson County EMS does not engage in convalescence runs. This means they are more likely to be there in the event of an actual emergency.
Yes, the Spring Hill units will be dedicated to emergency calls only.
to anon 7/6 @ 17:13
What do mean "health care by osmosis" and "surface knowledge"? Just curious.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
I' sorry, we need to put more tax dollars into ems. That way they can put "Spring Hill" on the side of the ambulances. We always need more gov't. spending, not less.
Even better:
"lead, follow , or get out of the way". - Ted Turner.
MRH, nor WMS would lead, then they wanted to follow, now they will not get out of the way.
hey anon
You forget I am not the one crying "we want our own ems".
I understand how the system works. If you want your own ems then it must be fire based and it will cost tax money. If not you will go from a county system to a private contractor and you will still not own the ems service.
Government spending has provided williamson county with some of the top rated police, fire and ems systems in the state. So I do not see how that is a bad thing but I guess I have too much experience to see things that way.
Hey scott have you noticed that some people will not answer direct questions. But I guess it is more fun to rant.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Scott and Ole Fire Fighter,
I think you might be surprised at developments here lately. Make a few phone calls to your fireman friends in Spring Hill and ask what they think about the latest news out.
In fact you might be shocked to the point of getting your application ready.
By the way, send an email any time and we can chat over a cold one at Beef o Brady's.
gorilla
I cannot reach my friend from the spring hill fire dept but you have my attention. What is the latest news out? I hate to wait, and yes a cold one sounds good.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
So if the private EMS units are not solely dedicated to emergency calls, then how do the citizens of Spring Hill receive a better level of service? When these private EMS units are on their convalescence runs who is going to respond in the event of an emergency? There is too much of this we vs. them going on here between for profit and the non profit organizations. Protecting the citizens needs be the issue at hand. A private service is not going to allow its units to sit in anticipation of an emergency call. This simply would not be good business practice in the private sector. They are going to seek ways to create a positive cash flow by allowing convalescence services. By allowing convalescence services, the private EMS service will not be increasing the level of medical care for Spring Hill.
The ambulance service that comes in will not be responsible for convo calls. It will be emergency only, and that is dictated by the city. If the company in question does not want to work under those guidelines, the city will not consider them any further.
By the way, thank you again Scott and ole fire fighter for giving a few in our local govt additional information to hold some feet to the fire.
Again, the Spring Hill units will be solely dedicated to emergency calls.
The private service will be under written by HCA with the city calling the shots and finalizing the contract. If there are $$$'s to be lost HCA will bear the cost. SHFD will gain.
The units will be equipped with the current life saving and stabilazation technolgy. Other current technology will include GPS, Communications, "Black Box" etc.
Staffing will be housed at our Spring Hill fire stations with direct reports to our Spring Hill Fire Department personel.
Each ambulance will be advanced life support (ALS) equipped and staffed. The service will be an "A" rated service, which is the highest rating issued by the Tennessee Department of Health, Division of EMS.
Many details are being finalized such as:
1)Staffing schedules
2)Communication protocals
3)Replenishing of medical supplies
4)Free training and sharing of training with our SHFD EMT'S
5)Sharing house duties
6)Hiring locally
7)SHFD personel working part time with service
8)Terminating private service employees not living up to standards
These are just a few examples that are being finalized. The expectations of EMS service in Spring Hill will be top notch and will increase the level of medical care for the Spring Hill citizens.
The ultimate goal is to move toward a fire based ALS EMS.
By the way, applications and request for employment are coming in locally.
Facts not rumors scottemtp.
hey gorilla
Now don't leave me hanging I have not been able to find out the latest news. The kids have kept me jumping today. You kind of made it sound like things were coming to a decision. If that is true I hope someone in govt has heard what has been said by many. After all day with the kids I think I need a cold one even more!!!
be safe all
ole fire fighter
hey scott
You have been holding out on me where did you get this info? More importantly why did you not public service me with this stuff? I am on shift sat, public service the station.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
sounds like shfd to me
is this legit???
It sounds like someone in city hall is finally maing the right decisions. Way to go Scott and Fireman. We need more listening and less "too little too late" down at city hall. Good work, and thanks Gorilla for passing this information along.
Hey Gorilla
It is no secret that i do not like for private companies in emergency work. I also said that if facts prove me wrong then i would be the first to say so.
Well friends and neighbors
I got to eat some crow with my pancakes this morning.
Bits and pieces have come to my attention and even i am impressed. Two things need to happen now. First someone needs to look very close to make sure that what is promised is delivered and then somone needs to watch to make sure that it keeps being delivered. These things happen and this will be a good thing for spring hill.
be safe all
now to butcher General Douglas Macarthur
"ole fire fighters do not die they just fade away. now i close my service and just fade away like the ole fire fighter that i am"
I think the unicorns and leprechauns have arrived.
to ole fire fighter, I have heard from some very good sources that your comments and concerns on this blog are the very reason that this offer keeps getting better and better for the hill.
ScottEMTP,
What's wrong with a general statement that applications are being accepted? There's no harm in that.
Just FYI for everyone. Every single bit of this was confirmed last night at the BOMA work session. Maybe everyone needs to re-read the post so I will list it below.
---
Again, the Spring Hill units will be solely dedicated to emergency calls.
The private service will be under written by HCA with the city calling the shots and finalizing the contract. If there are $$$'s to be lost HCA will bear the cost. SHFD will gain.
The units will be equipped with the current life saving and stabilazation technolgy. Other current technology will include GPS, Communications, "Black Box" etc.
Staffing will be housed at our Spring Hill fire stations with direct reports to our Spring Hill Fire Department personel.
Each ambulance will be advanced life support (ALS) equipped and staffed. The service will be an "A" rated service, which is the highest rating issued by the Tennessee Department of Health, Division of EMS.
Many details are being finalized such as:
1)Staffing schedules
2)Communication protocals
3)Replenishing of medical supplies
4)Free training and sharing of training with our SHFD EMT'S
5)Sharing house duties
6)Hiring locally
7)SHFD personel working part time with service
8)Terminating private service employees not living up to standards
These are just a few examples that are being finalized. The expectations of EMS service in Spring Hill will be top notch and will increase the level of medical care for the Spring Hill citizens.
The ultimate goal is to move toward a fire based ALS EMS.
By the way, applications and request for employment are coming in locally.
I realize that my opinion may be a “day late and a dollar short”. But I have looked over everything that has been submitted on these sites over the past few months, and I feel compelled to comment. I am a Springhill resident and I work for a local ALS-EMS service. I have a right, as a citizen here, to speak my mind. I am not going to whine or pick sides; there has already been plenty of that here. So, with that said, here goes…
First of all, about the hospital, I am neither for nor against a hospital coming to Springhill. To me, at this point in time, it would be a band-aid station or a quick fix hospital…this is not an insult, just hear me out, PLEASE! I’ll explain what I mean…there have been many times that a patient has been so sick or so unstable that we have had to utilize a closer facility to get a patient stabilized enough to tolerate going further north to a more appropriate facility or that patient would surely die. An ER, is an ER, is an ER…but a specialized facility is just that, a specialized facility. If you have a broken arm, or bloody nose, or a cold, this new hospital (or WMC or MRH) would have the capabilities to handle the situation. But, in reality, if you are in a horrible, tragic accident, you will go to Vanderbilt. If your child is sick, you will take them to Vandy Peds. If you need open heart surgery, you are going to go to St. Thomas or Baptist…right? Now, something to think about…if you or someone you love is in a horrible accident on Saturn Parkway, and you need immediate stabilization or you will die…MRH and WMC are 15 miles in opposite directions…now does it sound like a horrible idea to bring in another hospital?
Now, on to EMS…the question on everyone’s minds, especially within the local EMS and fire departments, is “does Springhill really need its own ambulance?” (Or two?!?) If you look at the stats for both WMC and MRH EMS, call volume is being met. Now, the fact of the matter is, you can not select when or where someone will have an emergency. There have been times that every ambulance within the county lines was out on a call…it happens. Some days are busy and others aren’t, that is just the nature of EMS. There is no “ONE CALL PER ZONE AT A TIME” rule. I can guarantee, though, if a zone needs coverage, trucks will be moved around to a central location to cover. But, unfortunately, one very hard fact of life is…people still die sometimes. Anger and sadness tends to make you blame others, even when a situation was inevitable. (Like the death of the former mayor)
The local governments already know, or have some idea, of what the projected growth for their area will be. So, why not utilize the systems already in place and improve on those systems? Franklin knows it is growing therefore; they have hired more police officers, built fire halls and schools, etc. in anticipation for that growth. So, why does it seem that Springhill is making a turf war out of this? It has almost become like a child, “if I can’t have it my way, then I don’t want to play with you anymore.” We have two amazing EMS agencies already right here for us; why not make them bigger and better? Sources have said that last fall, WMC and MRH was working on a mutual aid agreement, in that, if one or the other was busy, Springhill would still be covered. They spoke to Springhill city officials, but apparently if fell on deaf ears. WMC was going to provide an ambulance, stocked and staffed…all the city of Springhill would do is provide a place to park it and a place for the crews to sleep…has anyone mentioned that before. Can someone verify this? Huh? A private ambulance service is just a bad idea (it has already been discussed previously in this blog, so I will not go into that anymore) you have to consider the quality of care they provide.
In closing, I would like to say, if one of my kids get hurt, I NEED to know that the most trained, prepared, qualified, and compassionate EMS service, whoever that might be, will be the one who comes to my house to care for my family. Just because it says AMBULANCE on it, doesn’t mean they are all the same. Just some things to think about…
The paper said it all....
In its review of the project, the state Health Department said there already is a surplus of hospital beds in Maury and Williamson counties.
Given the number of licensed beds and occupancy rates at Maury Regional Hospital in Columbia and Williamson Medical Center in Franklin, the Division of Health Statistics found an excess of 135 beds in the area surrounding the proposed Spring Hill Hospital site.
It said the surplus would grow to 180 beds after the Williamson hospital completes an $83 million expansion in 2007.
The problem with the expansion is that most of it is office space. "Williamson Tower" is all offices. Now, they did improve the ER, CCU, cath lab, and other areas of the hospital, but I feel alot of the expansion was falsly represented to the public. They thought they were getting a more high tech hospital, not Dr's offices.
This is absolutely false. I have not bothered to address many of the false postings on here, but this one takes the cake. Every single floor at WMC was or is being renovated. Every nursing unit, including the CCU, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors. Additionally the new 5th and 6th floors have been added. Currently the ER and the Radiology Departments are being renovated as well. THE CATH LAB was NOT renovated, as you stated. The reason we are on diversion is because we have managed to keep our hospital open while renovating the existing floors. During the last few months we have been down a whole CCU and a whole nursing floor. However this is short term and we will be adding 40 beds within the next few weeks. We did add office space, but the most renovation and building was in the hospital itself. Please be informed before you state that the expansion and renovation was only office space. CA
I work for Rural/Metro in Knox County and I have worked for R/M in other places each one is a little different. I have also worked for other county services and for a fire department. Rural/Metro is a solid company to work for! Sure we have our problems but who doesn't. I understand what it is to be loyal to your community but R/M puts a lot money into the communities they serve. The people who work in Knoxville are mostly from East Tennessee. When R/M gets to town they will try to hire people from Spring Hill that only makes sense. My advise after nearly 20 years in EMS is give them a chance and you will have a great partner in your community. Rural/Metro will do a great job for you.
Gulp Gulp Gulp my Koolaid is down.
to anon 7/19 @ 1928
With all due respect to you as an ems worker i have to say that i just cannot agree with youir assessment of Rural Metro.
First, all of us that have been against this deal from the beginning have been wrongly accused of having our comments given to us by wmc. It would seem to me that a person who works for Rural Metro in Knox county is simply giving us the company line to try and make people feel better.
Second, Rural Metro does not have the best reputation in this area with the emergency service community. They tried to take over the fire service in williamson county and tried convelescent care in Nashville and failed with both attempts. Few people in emergency work believe that they will be able to provide first class care in Spring Hill.
Third, the environment that they are coming into is different than
Knox county. In Knox county they basicaly are the only game in town if you want to work in emergency ems. The experienced EMTs and paramedics in this area already work for emergency services and few that i know are going to leave and go to Rural Metro. This will leave them with inexperienced crews, convelescent crews or burnouts. Any of these will only lower the level of patient care from what we have and prove what we have been saying all along.
Finaly i find it hard to believe that most people around here do not see what Rural Metro is trying to do. Even if HCA is trying to give something back to Spring Hill
i find it hard to believe Rural Metro is. All you have to do is read statements by the CEO on the website to see that this is only a way to open the door to a new market. They will not stop with 911 service in Spring Hill but go after the fire, convelescent, and emergency services in this whole area. What they want to give to the community is a bill. Time may prove me wrong but i do not think they will be around long enough to do so.
be safe all
ole firefighter
It's easy to complain and find fault when you sit back and watch others come forward with plans of progression. Where were you as this city has grown? Why didn't you as citizens of Spring Hill and/or professionals in the field of EMS demand that your employers serve the growing needs of our community? Now that the opportunity is before us do you come forward and be opposed. One has to wonder what the motive is. Why aren't you asking WMC & MRH why they have failed miserably in recognizing the need of our rapidly growing community. MRH was to focused on growing south and WMC just dropped the ball. Again, why didn't you come forward to encourage and demand for your community? As professionals in the field of healthcare your compassion and concerns for Spring Hill should have been front and center long ago. I wonder.
I guess that is why Maury put an urgent care clinic in Spring Hill this year (well before the CON issue came up), Maury also has a CON for an imaging center that was approved, and MRH and others have increased the number of primary care physicians in the area as well. Just because things have an orderly development and do not appear at the snap of a finger does not mean that the needs are ignored. Also the fact that you guys DO NOT UTILIZE the resources that are there is another huge factor. It is hard to spend millions of dollars in a community that does not use the services you currently provide. Were are all the diseased people at that are not being treated? I don't see people laying in the streets from not being able to access healthcare. The fact of the matter is that you all do have access, it just isn't in your back yard where you want it. If you want something in your back yard, use what is already there so that we can justify putting something else there.
The "lack" of orderly development (vision or acknowledgement of growth) has gotten us to this point?
The whole idea of use what you have and more services will be added is known as orderly. You all's refusal to use what you have, or the lack of illness and disease in this area, has gotten us to this point, not the lack of orderly development. MRH is trying to be orderly by providing services and expanding them when justified. You all blew the whole damn idea of orderly out of the water when you went out and brought in someone that wanted to put a freakin hospital up. You dont even use the urgent care clinic, why would you need a hospital? And dont say it is because it is only open to 4:30, it would be open longer if more business was there. You can't live long paying people to sit around and do nothing because there are no patients. Your inpatience is what got us in this mess where the town is divided and cities are pitted against cities. What did you expect MRH and WMC to do? Roll over and play dead and not oppose this CON. HCA has spent just as much money as MRH and WMC, but again they skewed those numbers by leaving out their marketing firms costs and their attorney fees. You guys started this and you have caused severe strain on the relationship with the two providers by your "too little too late mantra." There is no doubt this hospital WILL BE DENIED. Then you are going to have to continue to use MRH and WMC or drive to Nashville which defeats your whole close to home argument. It is like you are the adolescent that cursed out his parents and ran away from home. Now you want to come back, or at least you will Wednesday, and guess what? Just like parents do, they will take you back. This is really about you guys not wanting to be told what is best for you by people who know such as the Department of Health and the Health Services Development Agency. The prodigal son's journey will start around 10 AM on Wednesday.
HCA/TriStar closed on 90 acres in Spring Hill this morning. It's NOW or LATER. Either way I suspect there will be some non-profits on their toes.
And guess what? They were going to put a medical office building there anyway, that is why they signed today. Plus Peter Jenkins has the opportunity to buy the land back at a huge profit for himself. Do not foolishly interpret the closing as a sign of confidence on HCA's part. HCA has been very quiet lately, they even refused to openly answer questions at the breakfast the other morning. Wonder why that is?
All is as it should be
Comments from EMS professionals on this site have been constructive and will undoubtedly result in a better decision.
As iron sharpens iron, so one man another.
Scott, you spew propaganda. The only facts needing straightened out are yours. Quit believing all your hearing from your side and talk with some folks who have been around this community for a few years. The Ambulance service has been talked about for a few years. The offers of Ambulance service, until recently, was minimal. If you are not going to recognize the needs of the Spring Hill citizens then Mayor Leverette will find those who will! Once he did then the offers started pouring in. Now it appears that the BOMA is heading towards resolution and there are individuals who think they should retract their efforts. Personally, our leaders have acted in good faith and following through with their good faith efforts is how I want my city perceived.
Had the other offers been submitted in good faith (not the minimum they could get by with) the path being chosen today might be different.
By the way, if you call the Mayor Leverette you will be surprised at how quick he will be happy to meet with you.
Oh what a load of crap. Scott I am glad you were here to witness this as this will certainly be the joke of the week for us. The EMS service has been talked about for year huh? Really? Is that why no request to provide service was issued until this hospital issue came about? Is that why? As far good ole Danny being willing to meet with you if you call, that is another pile of crap. Trust me, I have called the good ole boy network several times and Danny will not take my calls, appointments, debate requests, or boxing match proposals. The first and last time he tried to be confrontational to me (the Williamson County Commissioners meeting) he scampered away like a little poodle and then sent his wife out to shake my hand. I have witnesses if you don't believe it! Danny wants no part of us Scott because he is ill prepared to discuss this issue. What is amazing is that his own supporters on here have no idea who he has been trying to get to write the rules and requirements for this new ambulance service. I am not gonna let the cat out of the bag, but you would be quite suprised. I cannot wait until Wednesday is over so I can drive through town celebrating the defeat of HCA's propaganda compaign. Scott you know the facts here, don't feel bad that they few uninformed people who get their information from what Michael chooses to post here think that you are wrong. CA
Scott and others, if CA is your point man then I would be wary of the path he is leading you down. You are quite capable of speaking for yourselves and I would let CA know. His misrepresentations, lies, accusations, false claims, and belittling of others is not who I would put out front to represent me or anyone else for that matter. Often one is guilty by association.
Investigate, call, e-mail, write to find out for yourselves the truth. Don't relay on an individual's egoism.
To anon 7/22 @ 17:52
You need to read this article slowly, it is interesting.
Top Stories:
Alternate ambulance service offer remains on table
By NANCY GLASSCOCK/Staff Writer
SPRING HILL — Williamson Medical Center EMS Director Allen Lovett said an offer from WMC and Maury Regional Hospital for ambulance service remains open for consideration by city officials, while Mayor Danny Leverette said the city is working out a contract with TriStar Health System for the service.
“We reviewed all of the offers and the go ahead has been given to HCA to pursue a contract with Rural Metro with input from the Board of Mayor and Aldermen and final approval from the Board of Mayor and Aldermen,” Leverette said.
Spring Hill leaders said Friday they are working out details of a three-year contract with TriStar and Rural Metro of Tennessee to provide emergency medical services to city residents. The service is expected to begin in early September and will provide emergency transportation to the patient’s hospital of choice, officials said.
On May 8, the Maury County Commission’s Budget Committee approved an ambulance service by WMC and MRH while on the same day, Leverette announced intentions of partnering with TriStar Health System for the service. Leverette said in May the offer from WMC and MRH was appreciated, but “a little too late.”
“We have reached out to both Maury Regional and Williamson County and neither saw a need, so we went and took care of that need,” he said.
At Monday’s Board of Mayor and Aldermen meeting, Lovett read aloud from a document he said was a clarification intended to answer questions about WMC’s proposal of an ambulance service.
“For whatever reason, it was decided not to discuss the proposal with us but rather to directly go to TriStar for discussion,” Lovett said. “And subsequently, in conversations I’ve had with aldermen and the city of Spring Hill, there were a lot of questions and perhaps assumptions regarding the original proposal that I felt needed clarified.”
Leverette said he viewed the clarification as an opportunity to offer more information contained in the original proposal. He said city officials did not ask Lovett to speak at the meeting.
“Our meetings are well publicized so I felt they saw an opportunity to pursue another addendum to what they had already, in conjunction with Maury Regional, proposed,” Leverette said.
Alderman Jonathan Duda said because the city hasn’t entered a binding contract with Rural Metro, he isn’t prepared to dismiss the offer from WMC and MRH.
“I think that until a definitive agreement is signed with TriStar and the third party provider that all options should at least be considered,” he said.
The ambulance service from TriStar is not contingent on whether a certificate of need for HCA and TriStar’s proposed 56-bed hospital in Spring Hill receives state approval, officials said.
Supporters of a Spring Hill hospital recently announced the accumulation of more than 7,000 signatures in support of the project.
Nancy Glasscock may be contacted at nglasscock@c-dh.net or (931) 388-6464 ext. 302
Story created Jul 20, 2006 - 16:25:10 EDT.
The city has been talking about ems in the fire dept since 2004. If this were about meeting the needs of the growing city then 2 1/2 years would seem like enough time to start fire based ems. I have been around this city and this issue for many years. I spoke with people in the fire dept in 2004. This did not become a pressing issue until hca showed up.
Offers from wmc & mrh have been given in good faith based on real information about run totals etc. Lifeguard at first refused to bid on ems until they found out hca was paying the bills. Why, because there are not enough runs to pay for two als units without alot of financial support. Does not sound like good faith to me. Rural Metro has not signed a contract because they are waiting for the con to be decided. Again does not sound like good faith to me. I know the person helping to write the requirements and i have spoken with him several times. I will continue to keep those conversations between us, as per his request.
I have made contact with the mayor and all i recieved was a short e-mail thanking me for my concern.
Hey scott i hated to hear about Chad. Glad to see you back.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
To anon 7/22 19:48
I would not know Chandler if i ran into him. Thank you for your concern. I can assure you and everyone else that if i post a comment it is because i have taken time to research it myself, or know from experience. I have no hidden agenda and everything i say is because i feel strongly about it.
As General Patton said-
"know what you know and know what you do not know"
Damn Right
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Give Mayor Leverette, Alderman Mitchell, Alderman Johnson, Alderman McCulloch, Alderman Cantrell, Alderman Raines a call . You will find out how long an Ambulance service has been discussed. Quit relying on "the word on the street" for information. Go to the sources and get the facts.
Speaking of the "facts" I have included three articles (since the opposition relies so heavily on the printed news) that will clearly detail concerns of the elected officials of Spring Hill concerning an ambulance service.
Note:
-ole firefighter you convienantly left out September 2004 "City officials look into alternatives (Ambulance service) for the city.
-July 2004 Spring Hill considers buying ambulance.
September 2004
Spring Hill firefighters to be trained as EMTs
SPRING HILL - All Spring Hill firefighters will also soon be trained as EMTs.
The city's Board of Mayor and Aldermen had discussed the possibility of buying an ambulance during the August planning session. But City Administrator Ken York told the Board of Mayor Alderman Monday at its September planning session that costs made buying an ambulance prohibitive.
Start-up costs for the first year would total $483,000. The second year, the cost would drop to $285,000 and then level off at $138,000 for the following years.
Obtaining a certificate of need to operate an ambulance from the state also would be very difficult, York told the board.
York said he came up with the numbers by working closely with representatives from Maury Regional Hospital and Williamson Medical Center.
"I couldn't have asked for more in cooperation from either side,"he said.
During these meetings, York said he gave Maury Regional representatives numbers and demographics on Spring Hill's growth and population.
"The numbers of residential structures that we have built - and that are going to be under construction - are probably going to skew the need to having an ambulance (from MRH) in Spring Hill soon,"he said."We offered to provide the quarters for it - for the crew as well as for the ambulance, and we want to be in the position to do that. That's why we are accelerating the construction of the fire hall on Port Royal Road."
Meanwhile, the city's firefighters will be getting certified as EMTs through Columbia State Community College. Currently, two of the city's 12 firefighters are EMT's.
Firefighters are the first responders to many medical calls, and the new training will allow them to stabilize patients and prepare them for transport before an ambulance arrives, York said.
"I don't see a downside to this, whatsoever,"he said.
Currently, Spring Hill relies on Maury Regional Hospital and Williamson Medical Center ambulances.
On the Williamson County side, the closest ambulance station is in Thompson Station. Williamson Medical Center has eight other ambulance stations throughout the county.
On the Maury County side, the closest ambulance station is the Maury E-911 at the Neapolis fire hall. If this ambulance is on a call, an ambulance would have to come from Columbia, which is 20 minutes away.
An average response time of 18 minutes for an ambulance to get to a Maury County Spring Hill residence prompted Mayor Ray Williams to ask the Board of Mayor and Aldermen to look into alternatives for the city.
July 2004
Spring Hill considers buying ambulance
SPRING HILL - City officials in Spring Hill are considering the purchase of an ambulance to help reduce emergency response time.
Currently, if an ambulance is called to a Spring Hill residence, the closest station to respond would be either the Maury County Neapolis Fire Station or Thompson Station in Williamson County.
However, ambulances are not always available at either of these stations because they are responding to other calls. Slow response times can occur when an ambulance must come from further away.
"North Maury County is a big area to cover, and if they take a call out on the north side, it could leave Spring Hill with an ambulance having to come out of Columbia,"Spring Hill Mayor Ray Williams said.
The same problem can occur for the Williamson County side, he said.
The city installed a new E-911 system at the end of 2003 after experiencing problems with response times because emergency calls had to be dispatched through either Williamson or Maury countys' E-911 stations.
An extra ambulance would benefit Spring Hill citizens in emergencies, Williams said.
"We're looking to where it could cut down anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes on response time,"he said."And that time can make the difference on life and death."
There is also discussion about having an ambulance from either Maury or Williamson counties stationed in Spring Hill, as opposed to the city purchasing a new ambulance, Williams said. The city would have to hire the personnel to staff the ambulance, Williams said.
Spring Hill, which straddles the Maury/Williamson county line, faces problems with emergency response because medical personnel are not allowed to cross county lines on emergency calls. A new ambulance could remedy this problem, City Administrator Ken York said.
"We're unique because we're in both counties, and neither county can cross the other line as far as medical services are concerned,"York said."If we had our own ambulance we could go anywhere in Spring Hill."
Spring Hill officials are still in the preliminary stages of discussion and are working out the details before the Aug. 9 Board of Mayor and Aldermen meeting.
The purchase price for a new ambulance has been estimated at between $120,000$130,000, York said.
"It's the feasibility of investing that much money into a service,"York said."We want to make sure we have all our ducks in a row."
May 22, 2005
Delay in placing ambulance at fire hall not a danger
SPRING HILL -- City Administrator Ken York said waiting at least two months to place an ambulance in the city's old fire hall location poses no immediate danger to residents.
York said the city began looking into the issue in partnership with Maury Regional Hospital several months ago and found the population does not justify placing an ambulance at the old firehall location 24 hours a day. Instead, he said ambulance services would be on-call from noon-8 p.m. if approved by the Maury County Commission.
York did not elude to animosity between Spring Hill and Maury Regional. He explained the issue must be processed through the proper channels before being finalized.
"It's been a long, drawn-out process between the city and Maury Regional," he said. "We still have to get all the bugs out."
Placing ambulance services at the old fire hall will go before the hospital's Board of Directors and the Maury County Commission before approval.
A spokesperson for Maury Regional said an ambulance for placement in the former fire hall at Spring Hill could be on the agenda before the hospital's Board of Directors' June meeting or later, contingent on compilation of statistics.
The Maury Regional Board of Directors regular meetings are the third Thursday of each month.
Ambulance Services within 15 miles of Spring Hill include Maury County Ambulance Service on Tradewinds Drive and ASI Ambulance Service on Fourth Avenue in Franklin. Eight ambulance services are located within 30 miles of the city.
OK whoever posted the comment about Spring Hill trying
to get an ambulance before now, let's look at the problem per your own post:
York did not elude to animosity between Spring Hill and Maury Regional. He explained the issue must be processed through the proper channels before being finalized.
"It's been a long, drawn-out process between the city and Maury Regional," he said. "We still have to get all the bugs out."
That is the key to this whole problem. You have York and Leverette who claim to have this in depth knowledge of health care who want to argue with people who are trying to provide service. However because NO ONE can snap their fingers and have quality new service available at their whim they leave the bargaining table.
Also keep in mind that you would have an ambulance with proven excellent right now, and for the last 21 days, had Leverette realized nothing is for FREE> What he should realize if that it is ILLEGAL to give a town FREE ambulances with the expectation that all of those ambulances bring patients to your proposed hospital. There is a word for that spelled K I C K B A C K.
As far as Contacting Leverette goes, I think ole firefighter summed it up with this: I have made contact with the mayor and all i recieved was a short e-mail thanking me for my concern.
Finally relative to being a leader or spokesperson for the group against this issue, I am not. How could I ever be as great as Dave Huebner to claim that I can successfully sum up the concerns of thousands of people. I don't know who this firefighter is, except that he seems like a knowledgeable guy. I have known Scott for many years, but he and I disagree on things relative to this issue, such as I think that Leverette is the biggest dumbass to ever walk the face of the Earth and that he is the biggest coward I have ever met. However Scott takes a much more reserved opinion of Leverette.
This will all be over Wednesday unless HCA has managed to pull some strings to convince the Board that this hospital is needed. However with the HSDA document that is clearly representative of all of our arguments against the issue, I do not see anyway they can approve it. If they did they would be going against the findings of their own agency. Probably not going to happen!!!!
If you don't think that the ambulance issue that is completely UNRELATED to the CON approval wasn't thrown in their just to demonstrate the outright refusal of Leverette to work with current providers, and his inappropriate relationship with HCA, then you clearly will be in the opthamologist's office soon.
Leverette does not want to hear what anyone besides HCA has to say. He has made up his mind, like a 16 year old girl who wants to go out with the town thug, that HCA is what Spring Hill needs. This is evident because he refuses to reply at all to any letter, email, or call I or anyone else opposed to this has sent him. He has clearly made himself look like a fool in areas outside of Spring Hill. However just like the aforementioned 16 year old girl, the State will put a stop to his inappropriate actions, at least as far as this hospital goes, on Wednesday.
I want to be very clear about this, and I frankly could give a damn what those of you who hide behind the anonymous moniker have to say about this, the only two people who have shown any amount of diplomacy and intelligence on the pro hospital side of this issue who are empowered to make decisions are Jonathan Duda and Michael Glass. Michael may not be formerly in the role of alderman or anything, but he certainly has the ability to explain things to the officials. Now Duda, Glass, and I disagree as far as the need for this hospital, but AT LEAST they acknowledge that there is another side to this that has some very valid points. The mayor feels like, as per his barely comprehensible interview on Channel 4, that there is unlimited health care dollar to go around. There is nothing farther from the truth. The thing he should be telling you is that IF, and that is a REALLY BIG IF, this hospital is approved, MRH will lose money much more so than WMC. MRH will suffer drastic losses, and the result will be increased property taxes for EVERYONE in Maury County, as they have the ability to ask for an increase in taxes to offset financial losses. If you think for a minute that the Maury COunty officials wouldn't do it, you have lost your mind, especially since they didn't want this hospital to start with.
The most interesting thing about this whole conversation today is that NO ONE wants to talk about the HSDA report findings, especially the notes to agency members that are italicized. You can ignore it all you want, but it is coming on Wednesday. In the words of Hulk Hogan, "Whatcha gonna do brother, when the HSDA and the truth runs wild on you?" CA
Good info. anon. @20:37
Clearly shows the direction we have been heading. Let's take a deeper look at the two statements below.
May 22, 2005-Contingent on compilation of statistics (Spring Hill) meaning lets see if we have enough votes or if there is enough population.
May 10,2006-The Mayor went elsewhere now we have enough votes and they (Spring Hill) has enough population. "Wait a minute", Spring Hill has left the dock without us. "Wait a minute", we want to play ball now. "Wait a minute", we'll put a spin on it. "Wait a minute", we didn't mean for the compilation of statistics to take a year!
May 22, 2005
A spokesperson for Maury Regional said an ambulance for placement in the former fire hall at Spring Hill could be on the agenda before the hospital's Board of Directors' June meeting or later, contingent on compilation of statistics.
May 10, 2006
On Tuesday, the Maury County Commission’s Budget Committee approved an ambulance service provided by Maury Regional Hospital and Williamson Medical Center to be located on McLemore Avenue off Main Street. Also on Tuesday, Spring Hill Mayor Danny Leverette announced plans to partner with HCA for ambulance services in the city limits.
CA, you started this whole debate down the negative road with misrepresentations, inaccuricies, accusations, false claims, and belittling of others. Kudos, you remain true until the end.
To anon 7/22 @ 20:37
Well friend you make my point for me. Look how long they have been talking about this. They have had the numbers and have not done anything with it. All they had to do is say the word and spend the money. It was not a priortity until hca got involved. Why is that?
I have contacted the mayor and alderman and with one exception i was thanked for my concern and dismissed.
The emergency service community in this area is small and most of us know each other. So i have been going to the source for information. You should spend some time on the streets and you would see what the word on the streets really is from people who know.
The articles talk about the fire dept being EMTs. Being an EMT is one thing but as far as i know they are not operating at the level. They are still operating as first responders. I went through the same check off procedure in Franklin that they went through in Spring Hill. Brentwood fire already does and Franklin is waiting on ordered equipment to start. I believe the hold up here is caused by the city of Spring Hill. It says something about priorities.
Concerns are one thing but actually spending the money to put ambulances in the fire stations seems to be another.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Exactly my point. Mayor Leverette and this board are through talking and waiting for someone else to react/listen/prepare. It has been a priority (see the articles), the BOMA just needed someone who would react/listen/prepare. By the way, they are saying the word and spending NO TAXPAYER MONEY.
Cheif (SHFD) has been involved in the eveluation process. Have you spoken with him?
The problem with this EMS issue and the speed of response is this: USAGE. Do we have an urgent need for more EMS when we only have 240 uses per year? What sense does it make to rush and put another ambulance in Spring Hill when the ones that are here are not used? Be a businessman for a minute. Do you put a lot of money into buying another ambulance when the perfectly good one you have here now is not used?
Where are the people who will be using this new ambulance service? They are not here.
As far as the person who hid behind the anonymous moniker yet again and stated that I have been putting out false statements since the beginning, I think if you will read the HSDA summary you will find that every argument I have had against this hospital is in the report except for the HCA being terrible issue. If you would look on my site, I have a publication source for every statement regarding HCA and its terrible management of hospitals up there.
Just because I do not agree with you, does not make it false. Furthermore I believe both sides have done their fair share of cheap shots and name calling. At least I have put my neck and there and put my name rather than hiding behind a white sheet of anonymity on this board. You can make the argument as much as you would like about the need for anonymous postings to protect people's identity and what not. However if you have to hide how you feel about community issues from your peers and employers, then how much integrity do you have? If you get fired because of your beliefs, then at least you were fired because you were standing up for something. The truth of the matter is, and this was confirmed by my conversation with this site's owner Michael Glass, that if he made people be accountable for their comments and post with their identities, this site would die. I guess that speaks to why many people have not gotten on this site and joined the argument when I have told them of some of the ridiculous posts. Most people respond by saying exactly what I have said, people who post on this site anonymously say things that they would never have the intestinal fortitude to walk up and say in public.
You can ridicule me all you want, that doesn't bother me a bit coming from someone who is so cowardly that they will not attach their name with their post. Keep hiding your beliefs and your identity, because you have to go to bed at night knowing that the best you could do was put your argument on a blog and not put your name. Meanwhile, I will continue to go into the belly of the beast as I did at the first Town Hall meeting and ask the hard questions, which they could not answer, and let you guys hide behind the white sheets of the computer age, the anonymous post.
Maybe one day you will find that a paycheck is not worth sitting back and not standing up for something. You can ask Scott and the others that work at WMC with me. I often ruffle feathers because right is right and wrong is wrong, and if you let something pass that you know is wrong, then you are just as guilty as the person who did it. Then again, after saying that, I can see why you would support HCA, they are the Masters of wanting people to just let stuff slide, such as mysterious medication disapperances and odd patient charges. So it is very appropriate that you, a person hiding behind an anonymous moniker for fear of public ridicule or loss of employment, would support a company which had to sign a Corporate Integrity Agreement with the US Government because they preferred to let things just slide. CA
CA, while I have my doubts you have tried to contact Mayor Leverette and if you did I can't blame him for not communicating with you. I certainly wouldn't want to speak with someone who only sees it his way or no way and will use whatever spin needed to justify it for satisfaction.
By the way, I was also present at the Williamson County Commission meeting that night and I recall Mayor Leverette going out of his way to introduce himself and shake your hand. It was a brief encounter and you seemed a bit antsy to move away from Mayor Leverette. Spin, Spin, Spin!
CA Said:
"MRH will lose money much more so than WMC. MRH will suffer drastic losses, and the result will be increased property taxes for EVERYONE in Maury County..."
Oh yeah, that 2% current market share that MRH currently enjoys from Spring Hill is absolutely vital to MRH's future.
Drink up the kool aid brother!
Really, Antsy huh? You must be the one spinning from being intoxicated or high. I, with witnesses, told Mr. Leverette that he was the single biggest threat to public safety in Spring Hill today as he was making decisions that he knew nothing about! I then told him that if he felt so strongly about the need for a hospital he should feel strongly enough to demand that HCA provide services equitable to those provided by the current providers. His response was "I think you have made that clear." He then walked away. Later that evening, after yet another commission realized the danger of this hospital, I was outside talking with members of the oppositon to the proposed hospital, which whether you guys want to admit it or not are comparable in number to the supporting group, his wife came outside and shook my hand, as if that was supposed to scare me. I patted her on the shoulder and thanked her for her support, which seemed to dumbfound her. She then walked back inside and I subsequently left. If you think for one second that I am in anyway intimidated or threatened by Danny Leverette, you are sadly mistaken. I have issued challenges for a debate regarding this issue, which he has not accepted. I even went as far as to offer to have a charity boxing match with him to help generate funds for the TN Children's Home. I mean for him to advertise himself as Captain Redneck, he sure seems to have a yellow streak. You have made my evening my stating I am antsy around Leverette! Thanks for the laugh. Antsy, HAHAHAHA
Huebner, you have to do better than that. CA
To anon 7/22 @22:33
You get what you pay for! I would rather pay taxes for first class ems and know my money was well spent. Just as the tax payers of Williamson County do now. Our ems service has been given as a door prize to hca and Rural Metro and if you worked in the emergency field you would know that Rural Metro will not equal the service that wmc-ems provides - Fact not Fiction.
I have not spoken with the Fire chief. I understand he is a very experienced fire officer with good credentials. Be honest he is also new and do you really expect him to go against his boss. Ask David Bell, i understand one of the reasons he left is if you disagree with the administration then you do not keep a job for too long. I also understand that the police chief favors Rural Metro and there is discussion about AEDs in police cars. In thoery that is good, AEDS save lives. The problem is that an officer with just an AED does not take the place of trained ems people. I can shock you all day long but if you cannot control the airway and treat the underlaying cause of the arrest with drug therapy etc, then you will be just as dead and smell like burnt chicken.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Just as Michael did when I talked to him a few weeks ago, and he stated a 2% market share from Spring Hill for MRH, you have revealed your lack of knowledge regarding health care. The first problem with your foolish thinking is that your 2% is only the number of discharges from Maury that have Spring Hill zip codes. These are only inpatient discharges as well. Now, given that the proposed service area extends well into the 38401 and 37064 zip codes, as per the HSDA summary (man, you all would like to minimize that wouldn't you) that two percent does not reflect the potential impact of this proposed hospital.
Secondly, this number is only two percent of DISCHARGES. It does not take into account the usage of outpatient imaging services such as X Ray, Ultrasound, MRI, CT scan, Nuclear Medicine, Stress Testing, Diagnostic Cardiac Cath, and Mammography. It also does not account for outpatient surgery and endoscopy services such as the routine screening colonoscopies that everyone is supposed to have. It also does not account for the usage of the Ambulatory Care Center or the MRH medical office buildings.
So before you accuse me of spinning or drinking, maybe you should stop drinking and take a spin around MRH and see the buildings label OUTPATIENT PAVILLION, EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT, MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING, etc.
This almost beats the 64 slice scanner for treatment of Acute MIs comments, almost. Also you bring up a good point when you are arguing need for a hospital. People in Spring Hill do not use the healthcare services they have, (again that damned HSDA summary right ?)as you only use the Urgent Care 4-5 patients a day during the week and 16 or so patients a day on Saturdays. Where is the great need now? There isn't! We cannot predict your need down the road because you guys exaggerated your population growth in your CON. You applied the growth rate of the city of Spring Hill to Theta, Santa Fe, Columbia, Thompson Station, and Franklin in order to get those numbers (again from the HSDA summary). I mean to hear you all tell it, we will need an NFL stadium soon, as Spring Hill will be the new Los Angeles.
The fact is that growth will be stalled if we continue to have the current mayor, as these bad decisions will catch up with him eventually.
Scott,
Why don't you tell the fine members of the Danny Leverette fan club here on this site why the Fire Department employees cannot implement the life saving training they recently have received. They will not believe you, but give it a try. CA
I am in quite a situation. I have been up all night driving through Spring Hill and I am concerned that I am losing my vision. I drove past the City Hall. I drove through several of the major subdivisions. I drove through Thompson's Station. I drove by the proposed hospital site. I drove by the site of the famous pancake breakfast. I even drove through to Santa Fe and Theta. I surely am losing my vision. I even came home and left again, just to make sure I had really not missed something. I drove by the urgent care clinic and all the Fire Stations as well. Finally I gave up and came back home and started flipping through the phone book hunting an opthamologist.
I am just in so much distress because I cannot see what other Spring Hill residents see. I cannot see the Spring Hill Hospital. There are signs everywhere that read Support Our Spring Hill Hospital, but it is nowhere to be found. I was further distressed because I did not see the lepers and afflicted laying in the streets. I even got out of my truck and sat on the tailgate for a while just waiting for a leper to run by. I never saw one. I thought I may be overanalyzing the health care crisis in Spring Hill, so I lowered the acuity of the illness and just hunted a plain ole alcoholic wandering the streets in need of detox. I couldn't find a single one.
I did go to Taco Bell and saw a morbidly obese person, but I realized that I had seen my reflection in the mirror, so I was denied again. I even looked at the guy who gave me my food at Taco Bell and asked him if he was OK hoping he would recount to of how he had to drive so far to Williamson or Maury to get care. He didn't. He just said that he would be glad when all of this hospital "crap", as he called it, was over so that people would quit worrying him to sign a petition.
I continue to be perplexed because all I hear from the prohospital people is how desperate Spring Hill is for a hospital and how much of a severe need there is for healthcare that is close to them. I must be missing something because all I can see is the HSDA application summary that states that the Urgent Care clinic in Spring Hill only sees 4 to 5 people a weekday and the ambulances that cover Spring Hill only ran 240 calls last year combined. Am I missing something? Is there some new virus that makes the ill invisible? If anyone can help me find all of the disease and pestilence that Huebner and Leverette keep referring to, please do so.
I am willing to offer my services for free to fight this outbreak of lepresy, that is if I am not losing my vision. I feel pretty qualified as I have been a nurse for a while and I hold certification as a Certified Emergency Nurse. I wouldn't mind even helping suture and other things that the docs don't like doing. I have paid my Nurse Practitioner Student liability up through this December when I graduate, and I have a 4.0 GPA, so I probably could do some of the trivial tasks.
Somebody throw me a bone here, or better yet show me a bone of an injured Spring Hill resident, so that I won't think I have lost my vision.
CA
CA, I'm glad you are not in a leadership position. Building a community is not like putting sutures in an open wound and sending the patient home. This commnuity will be here long after you, I, and probably WMC & MRH. You are so focused on one issue that you cannot see the forrest for the trees. Healthcare is a major component in communities and preparing this community for what lies ahead is very important.
You are the type that will complain years from now because our city leaders did not plan accordingly for this growth. Luckily, you will be in Columbia's city limits when they decide to annex that portion of their Urban Growth Boundry you live in.
You continue to improve upon your education for a reason, preparing for your future. Of all people, I would think you understand that concept.
I would disagree with you on that. I see clearly that this community will need more healthcare services as it grows. However I think that the services needed should be tailored to the demographics of the community. I have said this over and over, but just like the HSDA report, people want to overlook it. This city needs a 24 hour urgent care clinic, as it is a young demographic. The clinic should be a NON PROFIT clinic, so we do not get exploited because we all have good jobs and make good money. As well, if and when we are approaching the point where a hospital is actually needed (which I think we are far from that now), it should be able to treat the most common diseases of the community. As of right now, the most common things in Spring Hill are A) Coronary Artery Disease development (We need to be able to provide preventative services such as C Reactive Protein screening, Cholesterol Screenings, the new Ubiquitan Screening mentioned at the last Heart of the Matter series at WMC,and such. The 64 slice scanner is not the end all answer,it is another piece of the pie, but the ultimate answer, as it stands now, is a cardiac cath. While we are a younger demo,any hospital needs a cath lab, especially one in a town where the mayor died from an MI,as there is no safer method of stopping a MI.)
B) Pediatrics and a NICU. Young people have babies and the babies become children and get hurt. A hospital here needs a Pediatric floor and a NICU. As well it needs an emergency department with a Pediatric Advanced Life Support Room. A hospital here certianly needs more than TWO postpartum rooms. Look at HCA's CON,they propose 6 Labor and Delivery Rooms and TWO postpartum rooms. Where willyou go when you deliver? God forbid you have a miscarriage, where would you be placed? Would you have to sit in a room and listen to babies crying all around you? I would hope not.
C) Trauma care. We are next to a major Interstate.People have wrecks all the time. They usually involve more than one person. Thus we need an ER equipped to provide Emergency Trauma Care. That means we will need more than ONE trauma bed in the ER. In addition to the wrecks we have an automotive plant right beside us. What happens when a machine breaks and more than one worker is injured? Where will they go?? What happens if a fire breaks out, where will they go? You can say Vandy, but they are on diversion a thousand times more than WMC. You need an ER with at least 4 or 5 trauma beds available. More importantly you need the nursing and physician staff to care for those patients. A nonprofit has more employees per patient than a for profit. It is that simple. Now I am sure someone will get on here and say, "Well I had to work short one day at MRH". Well we all have had to do that, but on average nonprofits have more staff at the bedside than the for profits.
D) These services need to be available from DAY ONE, not after people have to die to justify a need. My dad used to have a saying which was " If you are going to do something, you need to do it right." That is all I have asked with this issue.If you need a hospital, (and many of you think it is too urgent to hold off) then put one here that is not a half assed attempt to provide services, and put the services here, that while they may not generate revenue, they generate a level of care comparable to the existing hospitals.
I think you can not have any more foresight than to say these are our needs, build the hospital accordingly. That is what I asked Leverette to do,and that is what he has ignored. At least Michael was able to get the ambulance issue to involve community advice, and I believe that was only because Duda was on the BOMA.
This may surprise you, but I think Duda is the best candidate for our next mayor. While he is doing what he has to do now to make sure he is still able to work with the leadership now, I think given the chance he would make a Hell of a mayor, because he researches things and makes INFORMED decisions. If he is unavailable, I think Michael would do a good job,because he acknowledges that there are opposing viewpoints, and with the exception of ignoring the HSDA sumnmary, he usually will listen to the facts. Plus he is willing to stick his neck out for what he believes in, he doesn't just sit back and write in anonymously. Now copyright law, that is something else. CA
Hello Scott
I am glad to see that i am not the only one who saw the story about HCA. Thought i was delirious from lack of sleep. If i heard right the board is going to vote today on the buy out.
Good luck with the anon person in question. That person and one or two more (may be the same person ) made serveral comments. When you reply they do not have any more comments to make.
Have a good day and be kind to 1221.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
HCA Agrees to $33 Billion Buyout
"The acquiring group includes Bain Capital, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co., Merrill Lynch Global Private Equity, and HCA founder Thomas Frist Jr.
Scott,
No point to my previous post, just trying to provide you with some additional info...
Scottemtp,
All I can hear on this site is how great HCA is and that they are the Saviors of the world. It must be impossible that they have debt.
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