Are people losing their minds?

You know, I wish people would actually do a little bit of research before being quoted in the media. Read the article below and then let's go through this thing step by step...(actually USING Roberts Rules).

Columbia Daily Herald: Did the Pay Raise Pass?


Spring Hill may not have approved its budget, pay raise plan, some argue

By NANCY GLASSCOCK/Staff Writer
SPRING HILL — Some city officials are questioning the outcome of a Monday vote on the city budget, Alderman Charles Raines said Tuesday.

Mayor Danny Leverette announced at the Board’s Monday regular meeting the budget “passed” after a 4-3 vote, but Raines said because one aldermen abstained from the vote, the budget should have failed.

“If you’re abstained, that is a no vote,” Raines said. “With eight people there, it takes the majority to pass. With eight people there, four yes (votes) is still not the majority.”

The board voted on the budget, which included pay raises for elected or appointed city officials, on second and final reading. Leverette, Vice Mayor Miles Johnson, aldermen Brandon McCulloch and Domingo Gallardo voted to approve the budget while Raines and alderwomen Viola Pickard and Sharron Cantrell cast no votes.

Alderman Eliot Mitchell abstained from the vote. Alderman Jonathan Duda was not present at the meeting.

With approval of the budget, the mayor’s salary will increase from $644 to $777 per month, while salaries of aldermen who earn $50 each month will be raised to $450. Planning commissioners who did not earn a salary from the city will receive $50.

Raines said he and aldermen who voted against the budget want to vote on the pay raises again, as a separate agenda item not included as one of about 400 line items in the city budget.

“There’s no way that a person should give themselves a raise,” he said. “And if you did do that, 800 percent is totally out of line.”

According to Robert’s Rules of Order on parliamentary procedure, “If the vote required is a majority or two thirds of the members present, or a majority or two-thirds of the entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a ‘no’ vote. However, an abstention is not a vote.”

The rules also state “In the usual situation, where either a majority vote or a two-thirds vote is required, abstentions have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the vote since what is required is either a majority or two-thirds of the votes cast.”

City Administrator Ken York said the budget was approved, and abstentions do not count as votes.

“I don’t think he’s right on that,” Raines said.

Raines said he spoke with attorneys on Tuesday who agreed “the budget did not pass.”

Now, let's read Robert's Rules really quickly.

What Vote is Required

1. Majority Vote

A majority vote is required to adopt a motion or to elect to office. It is defined as "more than half of the votes cast by persons legally entitled to vote, excluding blanks or abstentions, at a regular or properly called meeting at which a quorum is present."

"There may be fewer votes cast than the number of members present, since some may choose not to vote- resulting in "abstentions." Only a majority of those actually voting is required. If, for example, there are 10 members present at a meeting, and 4 vote in favor of a motion, while 3 vote against it, the 4 votes in favor are a majority of the 7 cast votes, and the motion is therefore adopted.

...Now, I took the previous couple of paragraphs straight out of my Roberts Rules book. Having read it, are there any questions about the vote taken at Monday's meeting?

Let's go back and pick on a few comments from the newspaper article.

"If you're abstained, that is a no vote," Raines said. "With eight people there, it takes the majority to pass. With eight people there, four yes (votes) is still not the majority."

According to Robert's Rules of Order on parliamentary procedure, "If the vote required is a majority or two thirds of the members present, or a majority or two-thirds of the entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a 'no' vote. However, an abstention is not a vote."

"I don't think he's right on that," Raines said.

Raines said he spoke with attorneys on Tuesday who agreed "the budget did not pass."

If I were you Mr. Raines, I would not take too much advice from those attorneys. I would also be happy to loan you a copy of Robert's Rules.