As you all now know, the Williamson County Commission Voted 14-5-1 in favor of opposition to the Spring Hill Hospital.
Article about the Williamson County Commission Resolution.
Here are a couple of the comments that were most interesting from the article...
"The main concern among the commission was that if the Spring Hill Hospital is built, it will draw money away from the county’s Williamson Medical Center."
“If its approved it will stymie our future expansion and our technology growth,” Dennis Miller, WMC administrator, said. “When we got our certificate of need, we included Spring Hill in that. We are Williamson County’s hospital. We are your hospital.”
Now, this is the interesting part in looking into the statements a little bit deeper.
It has been shown on this site, through the review of past CON's by Williamson County that the "inclusion" of Spring Hill by Williamson Medical was to the tune of 9800 people by the year 2010. When are they going to acknowledge that Spring Hill will be larger than 45,000 people by 2010 and that we are currently at over 23,000? That is an estimation shortcoming by WMC of over 35,000 people! Who is accounting for the population difference currently? The answer is no one except TriStar.
As to the argument that WMC will stymied by the building of a hospital in Spring Hill, I would like to present 2 documents that directly refute claims by Williamson Medical. Here is the first.
Take a look at this map from the TriStar Certificate of Need (which I have added color for emphasis). In the CON, TriStar states very clearly that 80% of the projected use of this hospital will come from a 5 to 6 mile radius of Spring Hill. The other 20% will is estimated to come from surrounding areas. This is not a hospital currently intended to rise up and steal a large amount of patients from surrounding hospitals. This is a hospital that is designed to service that area most affected by the underestimation by other area hospitals.
Now on to projected revenue for Williamson Medical...
It shows an income of 220,654,564 for the year 2005.
It shows an increase of over 57 million dollars (26%) by 2014.
That does not sound like a hospital that has stymied growth to me. In fact, I believe that they will be able to compete just fine against a Spring Hill Hospital. Please...I don't need to hear a "Woe is me" argument from Williamson Medical. Spring Hill is no threat to take away all of the business in Williamson County. This argument is about filling the NEED in a community.
Wednesday, June 14, 2006
Williamson County Commission Vote
Posted by Gorilla in the Corner at 8:37 AM
Labels: County Government, Spring Hill Hospital
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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: The information on this website is a series of personal opinions and is not meant to reflect an official position by the City of Spring Hill.
42 comments:
WMC projects to substantially increase it's revenue over the next five years, even with their grossly mis-projected population of Spring Hill. They only stand to increase their revenue that much more if a hospital is not built in Spring Hill, sounds like a great motive to go against the Spring Hill hospital.
I wonder how long it will be until WMC applies for a CON for Spring Hill. I don't think they are against a Spring Hill hospital, just against HCA building and running it.
The residents of Spring Hill need to work together and demand a local Hospital. A city with a population of 45,000+ should not have to travel 30 minutes (without traffic) to get to an emergency room!
Did anybody see (or hear) Chandler on TV last night? This guy has got to go......am I the only sick of being told that I do not know anything? Furthermore, instead of his email being isavelives@hotmail.com, it should be iSUCK@hotmail.com
At least one news station reported the news accurately last night: Channel 2
"With Spring Hill’s population doubling in a few years to 45,000, no one doubts Spring Hill's need for some kind of medical facility."
"Thank you" is definitely in order for Commissioner Hayes and Lynch for agreeing with the people of Spring Hill and Thompson's Station that Williamson's Opposition is inappropriate.
Likewise, appreciation to Commissioners Ford, Davis and Barnwell for taking a stand on a very importamt issue to southern Williamson County!
Maury Regional and Williamson Medical have been there to support the healthcare needs of the communities they serve. They aren't going anywhere and they will continue to support you. Quite frankly, it's HCA who is concerned about revenue loss. Those hospitals they would reduce licensed beds in to support this move...well, those beds haven't been occupied in years. It is highly likely if HCA's CON is denied that some staff layoffs will be in order. This is the habit and practice of the corporation. There is no denying that there are unmet healthcare needs in our community. Inviting HCA into our backyard may not be bring the best long term result. Why on earth would our city leadership seek such a partnership and deny the opportunity to partner with the County hospitals who concern themselves daily with our welfare? There is no place for rash decsions here.
Why didn't WMC & MRH offer the partnerships as they sat back and watched Spring Hill's growth. Only now do they come forward when competition is at the back door. My advice, they better start tightening up the ship because Spring Hill Hospital will be opening it's doors in the very near future.
Protective Mother Gorilla said:
There is no denying that there are unmet healthcare needs in our community.
Oh, but the Williamson County Commission's "considered judgement" is "that there is no demonstratable need for a new hospital in Spring Hill".
Kind of makes it hard to come back to the HSDA to ask for another expansion of a couple of new floors to WMC next year, right?
After all, their current expansion has taken into account all of Spring Hill's growth, hasn't it?
PS: Welcome to the forum!
Maybe you keep getting told that you do not know anything because, let see, you don't know anything about healthcare. Watch your kidneys at this new hospital.
How many doctors do you think this proposed facility will have? Do you think they will have around the clock orthopedic coverage? Do you think they will have a bed for your son?
Anon @ 12:08
The answers are:
1. over 100 to begin with
2. yes
3. yes
The question was how many doctors do you think the ER will have at one time? No more than any other and probably less.
Although it is a drive to a nearby hospital, I mean it was that way when you moved here right? I love it when someone moves in to Spring Hill last year and thinks they have the right to moan about traffic. It's like, I moved here and now I want it to be like a larger city with a by-pass and everything. The clinics are coming. Soon I'm sure there will be a walkin clinic who would be able to handle breaks and other minor emergencies. We all moved to a city that is smaller, farther from Nashville, with only afew places to eat, etc... Give it time. As the city grows so will the ammenities. I remember when WMC was a smaller place and everyone used to say I drive to Nashville because WMC is just a small town hospital. It will be the same here.
Well, one question to think about is how often these so called (local hospitals) wmc & mrh, go on diversion. I.E. how often do they divert patients to other hospitals, again i.e. NASHVILLE.
How can anyone with a clear consience, trade $dollars for quality, 5 min. away healthcare.
MRH is nothing but a band aid station. They should vote for the CON, there death rate would go down.
What a convincing argument for this hospital, calling someone against it an idiot. Clearly representative of the intellect of Spring Hill. Maybe you deserve to be the outcasts of Maury County.
Chandler Anderson is an idiot for just one reason, expecting that people could be adults and have a debate on this topic. He assumed that the days of the South where people people with differences of opinions, skin color, and religious beliefs were persecuted were over. Little did he know that the same people who condoned racism, discrimination, and biggotry were alive and well. Hiding behind anonymous is appropriate, as it serves to be your white sheet of the 21st century. Yes, Chandler Anderson is an idiot for thinking people were capable of higher thinking aside from the old way of thinking that insisted that there was only one opinion that could be allowed. Just like in the 50s and 60s when people where standing up for equal rights, he was threatened and harassed. Good for him for taking his ball, or website in this case, and going home. Some things will never change.
I have seen very few, if any, posts on EMS. Spring Hill has the best at their beck and call right now..you really do...How is the new ambulance service going to receive their calls? If you use a cell phone it will go to the Respective county dispatch centers. then there is a transfer to the spring hill dispatch center (delay). Maury regional ems and Williamson EOC are trained in Emergency Medical Dispatch..that is when you call they can EFFECTIVELY give you pre-arrival instructions. Spring Hill dispatch does not do this. Also the fire department is currently trained and is functioning at the EMT-IV level. They will not be able to do this if the private service comes in. Lets just hope you are not patient number three in line..Where will you get your ambulance from then???(assuming HCA will hire the two promised units)..
Here is a point to ponder...Would you let your family doctor perform open heart surgery on you? Why not he has MD after his name? oh he is not a specialist is he? Same goes with ambulances..the ones in place now are the emergency specialists...
Anon @ 20:06
Racism...really?
to anon 6/18/ 20:36
I have posted several things on the proposed selling out of our ems to the lowest bidder. THis has not generated the real debate of the issue that i hoped for. In the few responses that i see all you hear is that we will get two units with hca. There are even some people that I think know who hca is wanting to use but no one will release a name of the service. I am starting to believe that this is because if that information came out then people who work in the fire and ems field would know too much bad information about the service. When the majority of all emergency personel are against this fiasco then that should make everyone who lives in spring hill demand better answers.
to allaboutcommunity
You bring up good points but what hca is proposing will not fix them. First it is not up to wmc or mrh to split up spring hill and decide who responds where. Ems just like fire and police are constrained by jurisdictional boundries. For either county to send units across county lines mutual aid or automatic aid agreements must be in place and worded to allow the closest unit to respond. That applies to all counties not just in spring hill.
The proposed two units from hca will not solve the problem of not having a truck available. All it will take is a two car accident with more than one patient and you will have zero ambulances. (as i have said before this happens almost every day) THen What?
It does not matter what part of spring hill you live in we should all demand the best ems coverage. The problem is that what i have seen proposed will not provide that. A private service will not be able to live up to the level of service we have now. Spring hill will not be able to dictate who this service hires or what sops they operate under. We will be served by no experience, or burn outs , or those that could not get hired by emergency services.
If hca takes over ems you will gain two ambulances of lower quality and lose the fire department response. The fire department operates under wmc and mrh medical direction. Unless spring hill is going to hire a doctor as a medical director then the fire department will not responding to ems calls. If spring hill is going to hire a doctor then why not buy ambulances and staff them with paramedics as a part of the fire department and get hca out of the picture.
I can also assure you real ems services (all they do is emergency work) are money losers not money makers. WMc ems is support by government money just like all emergency services. You do not make money having to buy expensive equipment, hire highly trained people then have them sit around waiting for an emergency. Police, Fire and ems are like insurance, you have to have them but hope not to need them.
to allabout community
Some of my assumptions may be wrong but some are right on the money.
First the first responder role would change. To perform any patient care in the williamson county side of spring hill the fire department falls under the medical director for wmc-ems. The had to undergo competancy testing to operate at the emt level of care. I went through the same testing as a lieutenant with the franklin fire department that spring hill did. If williamson is not providing ems in spring hill then the fire department would lose its medical director.
Secondly the agreements in place are what are called in the fire service mutual aid agreements. It means other jurisdictions may be called when a jurisdiction has used up all available resources. Thier are no agreements anywhere in williamson county that allow the nearest units to be sent regardless of what city they are from.
I have no problem with spring hill having its own ems service. The problem is that the hca proposal for a contract with a private ambulance is a bad idea. This is not casting stones but hard earned experience. to go from a private service that charges spring hill nothing to operate to having an ems service that is owned by the city will cost vast amounts of money. Why wait start fire based ems now. The longer we wait the more it will cost to transion. I worked for a private service that had the emergency contract for a county in middle tennessee. Maury ems took the contract over because they provided better service than what was there.
Dear CA, Anonymous et al...
I don't know if it has been asked, but are there any reasons/conditions for which you think a hospital in Spring Hill would be a good thing? I see a lot of reasons "why it isn't" but please tell us why it could be "if..."
Gorilla - good forum! Keep it up!
If the proposed hospital offered the services offered by the existing hospitals, such as a cardiovascular lab, which does save many lives yearly, it would be an excellent idea. I do not think anyone is opposed to a hospital in Spring Hill. I think they are just opposed to THIS one.
THIS hospital bad idea, not EVERY hospital option...
So does a city that Spring Hill will be in 2010 need a hospital or not?
Come take a look at our Williamson ambulances...oh by the way try Lifeguard INC. for the private service that has been asked to cover Spring Hill. See information is out there.We at Williamson EMS can survive without Spring Hill, but can Spring Hill survive without us???
I was in favor of the hospital until I got onto this site. Now get the *&%@ out of here HCA
to anon 6/24@9:41
so the word around the water cooler is Lifeguard, that is disheartening i was hoping for better (oh i am sorry there are no private services better)
anon 12:06
The word around the water cooler is that regardless of the hospital the ems issue is going through in some form. The only dreamland with this problem is the nightmare if the wrong ems provider gets to cover spring hill under the wrong terms and then it will not matter where the hospital is.
The EMS issue will go away when the hospital is DENIED. By the time they get all of the B team EMS people and the burned out EMS folks hired and trained, HCA will be jerking those ambulances out of Spring Hill faster than you can say "to little, too late." Then things will be back to they way they were with competent EMS people taking care of Spring Hill. Oh yeah, and the mayor will move on to more important things, like worrying about the word SEXY being on a hair salon's window.
I hope hca will pull out of the ems issue and this city can go forward. Until they do you can almost hear the squirrel tales fluffing up for a chance to run a "real emergency" call
Anonymous @ 9:41, 10:05, 11:56, 12:23, 12:38 and 14:12:
Re-read the two Ambulance proposals again.
TriStar is offering to buy two ambulances, and fund the operation expenses for an ambulance service located within the city of Spring Hill, independent of the results of the CON request. The City of Spring Hill and TriStar will be selecting a third party vendor to provide that service.
Why couldn't WMC or MRH be that third party vendor?
By the way, how would WMC provide additional ambulance service to Spring Hill residents as they have stated they would in their 'offer', when they haven't gotten budget approval yet from the Williamson County Commission?
I bet the Williamson County Commission will embrace the request with open arms, espencially since they will be asked to fund an ambulance service that would be housed outside of Williamson County (the McLemore site is in Maury County).
to anon 20:50
I have read the proposals over and over. You can spin it any way you want but it always comes back to the truth. Tri star is offering to contract with an outside service to provide ems in spring hill not buy anything. This will be a private ambulance service that does convelescent runs(non emergency transports) not emergency runs, as there are no private services that do emergency work in middle tennessee. The employees will be burn out emts and medics, crews with no emergency experience or the left overs that could not pass the testing to get hired with a county ems service. It will not matter if the service is an instate or out of state service the employee pool will be the same because no private service that i have ever worked around pays enough or has good enough benefits to take good medics from county services.
The fire department in spring hill operates as a part of wmc-ems to provide medical care as first responders. They operate under the license of the doctor that operates as williamson's medical director. If williamson goes so does the medical director. No doctor, no patient care. The only way around that is for spring hill to fund all of the costs (the doctor, insurance , supplies) sounds expensive to me.
Having only two ambulances in spring hill does not solve the response time issue. It only takes one mva with two cars and two patients (happens all the time) and you have no ambulances. Then what? How will they fill in when they have to transport to nashville, and they will. Regardless of a hospital in spring hill trauma patients, burn patients and pediatric patients are all going to vanderbuilt. Williamson has 9 ambulances that can be sent to run calls in spring hill and the fire department can treat you while they respond. You can not do that with only two.
Williamson ems is funded by williamson county and the hospital. Ems does not make money for anyone, it costs money. The people of williamson county are lucky that the county has choosen to fund ems with the latest equipment and the best people. No private service (for profit) that is not recieving money from spring hill to operate can allow the units to sit and wait all day on a call that may come. They will not spend money on the latest equipment and training. It is basic economics , they must spend as little money as possible to make money. Is that the mindset you want from your ems service.
My view is based on experience if I am wrong then show me facts that prove me wrong. That is all I ask.
TO ANONYMOUS
OK HERE IS A COMMENT FROM A PREVIOUS POSTING..
TriStar is offering to buy two ambulances, and fund the operation expenses for an ambulance service located within the city of Spring Hill, independent of the results of the CON request.
REPLY..SINCE WHEN DOES A COMPANY, A PRIVATE COMPANY (HCA) OWE ANYTHING TO THE CITY OF SPRING HILL IF AND WHEN THE CERTIFICATE OF NEED IS REJECTED? DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THEY WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING FOR NOTHING? AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW IT IS GOING TO COST THE CITY ALMOST ONE MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO HAVE HCA OPERATE THESE UNITS. THE TAX DOLLARS FROM THE NEW HOSPITAL WILL PAY FOR THIS IF IT IS VOTED IN. IF IT IS NOT, HCA WOULD BE FOOLISH TO GIVE THE CITY THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY WITH NO RETURN ON IT. WHAT DO YOU THINK SPRING HILL IS A CHARITY??
Why couldn't WMC or MRH be that third party vendor?
REPLY..THEY ARE ALREADY PROVIDING SERVICE TO YOU WITH YOUR "COUNTY" PROPERTY TAXES..YEP YOU WILL BE THROWING THAT AWAY. TAX DOLLARS FOR NOTHING..THANKS FOR THE SALARY SPRING HILL..
By the way, how would WMC provide additional ambulance service to Spring Hill residents as they have stated they would in their 'offer', when they haven't gotten budget approval yet from the Williamson County Commission?
REPLY..WMC EMS ALREADY HAS THE STAFFING IN PLACE...DONT NEED APPROVAL FOR SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS...
I bet the Williamson County Commission will embrace the request with open arms, espencially since they will be asked to fund an ambulance service that would be housed outside of Williamson County (the McLemore site is in Maury County).
THEY VOTED DOWN THE HOSPITAL..DONT YOU THINK THAT A MOVE TO KEEP IT OUT WOULD BE A SMART THING???
COME ON A LETS HEAR "FACTS" YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT EDUCATED IN THIS ISSUE, WHOEVER YOU ARE. I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE YOU TO ACTUALLY LEARN ABOUT THE SYSTEM THAT IS IN PLACE. ASK YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT WHAT THEY THINK, THAT IS IF THE MAYOR AND CITY MANAGER HAVE NOT SEQUESTERED THEM BY NOW..I HAVE HEARD STATEMENTS FROM THE ALDERMEN IN YOUR CITY THAT WMC EMS PROVIDES EXCELLENT CARE AND THAT WMC EMS IS THE STANDARD FOR THE NEW SERVICE WHOEVER THAT MAY BE. THERE IS NOT ANOTHER SERVICE OUT THERE THAT CAN BE HIRED THAT CAN BEAT THE EXPERIENCE OR QUALITY PROVIDED RIGHT NOW TO YOUR CITY.
HEY I WILL POSE THIS QUESTION AGAIN..WOULD YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DOCTOR PERFORM OPEN HEART SURGERY ON YOU? OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T. NOT EVEN THOUGH HE HAS MD AFTER HIS NAME JUST LIKE A CARDIOLOGIST. YOU SEE THE CARDIOLOGIST IS THE SPECIALIST. THE EMTS AND PARAMEDICS IN PLACE NOW ARE THE SPECIALISTS IN EMERGENCIES. IF YOU WANT INFERIOR CARE FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, SUPPORT THIS PROPOSAL AS FAR AS AMBULANCES GO. OH YEAH AND ANOTHER THING, THE SMYRNA HOSPITAL THAT LEVERETTE IS SO PROUD OF...RUTHERFORD COUNTY STILL RUNS EMS FOR THE ENTIRE CITY OF SMYRNA. THEY DID NOT MESS WITH A SYSTEM THAT WAS WORKING WELL...PLEASE REPLY AGAIN...
SINCERELY
A LOCAL PARAMEDIC
to a local paramedic
TO whom are you refering that is not educated in this issue?
I would guess those of you that think that you are going to get these ambulances for free. You are not educated in this issue and do nothave the capacity to become educated.
To a local paramedic and his anonymous poster friend:
I can only assume that you both reside in Williamson County where ambulance service is responsive and believe that Maury County residents like myself do not need better ambulance service. All the city leaders have ever asked for is equal service to all the residents of the city, regardless of where they live. They asked, and Tristar responded... NO STRINGS ATTACHED.
But you have no idea what equal service is, so all you can go on is what HCA tells you. How can you say it is equal service when you have no medical background?
To anon 6/25 9:31
I would say 15 years of fire, rescue, and ems experience would qualify me as educated on this issue. I would also say that having spoken with members of city government and read the proposals also goes to making me educated. I have the capacity to become more educated and plan to continue to become more educated. If you read the proposals it clearly states that tri star does not plan to seek money from the city of spring hill to opperate the ambulances. This fact is what I was talking about in my post of 6/24 22:29 that wihtout government assistance no for profit service can make money on just emergency calls.
to anon 6/25/ 10:07
I do not know who the local paramedic is but yes I do live in williamson county. At no point did I say maury county should have less ambulance service. How much time do you have in emergency work? My 15 years tells me that no private service can equal the level of skill and patient care provided by either service. Let me reverse the question because I live in williamson county do i deserve to have my level of service cut by allowing some second rate service care for my family. I have said all along that the only way that you can provide equal emergency care to both sides is with fire based ems not tri star. Once again if you can show hard facts based on experience that the private service tri star is giving us will provide equal or better service then please do so I would love to see them.
anonymous friend
The local paramedic does not live in Williamson County, I live in southern Maury County. I am also not saying that not being educated on an issue is equivilant to being dumb. I am not educated on how to be a mechanic, but I am not dumb. I was referring to the individual who posted the comment in which i replied to. It seems that their support for the hospital and ambulance service is not an educated or an informed decision. My excperience in emergency services started back in 1988. So i know what i am talking about. My statements are factual and can be backed up. I am not speaking feelings. My home town of Pulaski (some of you may know who I am now and that is fine beacuse i have nothing to hide) had an HCA facility take over the local hospital. It made its money, then sold the hospital. Now the facility can bearly afford to stay open. This is what could happen to the facility in Spring HIll as well. It will drain you of your financial worthiness then depart. This comapny will not stick around when the times get rough. Now the hospital is one thing, EMS is another. The EMS system in place is a good one. Yes there may be response time issues on the Maury County side but if that is a concern use your $750,000 anually to help the Maury County side beef up their coverage. I promise there is not an anti-Spring Hill agenda in place.Every person on each ambulance, regardless of county line, cares about your well being. Oh yeah, we do cross county lines when asked, we went to Sumner county when the tornado hit, three units, Maury County sent ambulances to the big nursing home fire in Nashville a few years ago, I was in charge of Maury County that night and sent them myself. So pish posh on not crossing the county lines. WE HAVE AND WE WILL AGAIN IF NEEDED. The biggest loss to Spring Hill right now is that the Fire Department CAN NOT use the skills and PURCHASED equipment that they have in place. They will perform to the same level as I could on an ambulnace for the first ten minutes or so of any paitent contact. I have to do the same assessments and the same treatments for that first few minutes. It is a two teared system. But NOW the care has to WAIT until the ambulance gets there since they can not function due to this whole ambulance thing. The mayor is holding up your quality right now. Let the ambulance issue become a thing of the past. leave it alone just like the smyrna facility did not mess with Rutherford County EMS.
To local paramedic, wmcmedic(under the ambulance service post, scott story(who i have known for years all the way back to emt school), and all of the others in the emergency service community.
As a citizen of spring hill i thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge on the ems issue. As a member of the fire service in williamson county since 1991 I know that what you are saying is correct. I have been saying the same things fighting against this issue myself. Keep up the work if enough people in this field speak up than maybe we can stop this fiasco.
To my fellow citizens of spring hill I say GET EDUCATED about what you have now and what you will lose. Go to see for yourself the ambulance services you have now. As the citizens of this city you have the power to get the service you need, the elected officials serve us but you must get involved. Do not just say we want "equal service" find out what that really means by doing research.
To anon 6/24 @20:50 / anon 6/25 @10:07 and some of the others that I have seen post.
You are part of the problem. You obviously do not work in the fire or ems field and never have. Instead of using this site as a place to ask questions of the people who do this work for a living you tell everyone to trust hca and you post accusations of descrimination against maury county citizens. I have seen that when your posts are answered by emergency workers then all of the debate stops and you do not post anymore. Could this be because you only want to debate this with uneducated people, or could it be that you know that you cannot provide facts to support what you say. I do not expect a response about this either.
Stop and think everyone, when more than one person in the emergency field says almost the same things against this deal it needs to be questioned more by everyone.
Sounds like a few are working toward the same goal of preventing competition and protecting their turf.
Why is it that every comment on here that is not pro hospital dismissed as being trite, vindictive, or such? Can't be who disagree actually have valid points? You guys lambast the competition for name calling and then you turn around and do the same thing. Come on. If we are going to debate it, debate it. If not, just do not post anything.
To anon 6/30/@ 18:50
I have posted many comments against private ems. Sorry to burst your bubble but I work for Franklin Fire so my "turf" as you call it is the city of Franklin. I am a resident of spring hill so the only thing I am trying to protect is my family from second rate ems.
If you want to debate real issues regarding ems service we can do that, but you should not question motives before you know them.
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