For those of you that have been taking part in this website from the beginning, you may be excited to know that the ordinance dealing with re-apportionment passed it's second reading on Monday night (making it a done deal). To all of you that helped gather the over 1,100 signatures, and created pressure, we thank you and your work has been rewarded. This is a HUGE development for the city, and the reason the site was started in the first place. The "gorilla" is no longer in the corner.
Here is how they are drawn up now. 
Hopefully in less than a week (next Wednesday) we will have another celebration.
Thursday, July 20, 2006
Celebrate!
Posted by Gorilla in the Corner at 8:17 AM
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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: The information on this website is a series of personal opinions and is not meant to reflect an official position by the City of Spring Hill.
35 comments:
I guess this may be a simple question - but what is with the blank areas? Thanks for keeping me up to speed!
Areas that are not annexed into the city of Spring Hill.
HAHAHAHAHA The TN Health Services Development Agency released their report on the proposed CON today. They said what I have been saying all along.....
1) The numbers regarding growth are inflated, in fact, they state that for the people reported to benefit from the new hospital would be closer to the existing providers
2) Spring Hill doesn't use its current health services
3) Spring Hill has plenty of resources now that will and can meet their needs
4) This hospital is not needed.
So now we have the Department of Health and the HSDA saying that this hospital is not needed. Yep, sure is going to be a celebration on Wednesday. WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO
Hey CA,
Go ask the folks at WMC how many excess beds the Dept of Health and HSDA said there were when WMC got their latest expansion approved!
Ha!
Oh, and 1st paragraph on Page 5 tells you all you need to know about the Primary Service Area.
The truth hurts doesn't it? Here are direct quotes from the previously mentioned document:
"Note to Agency members: Seventy-five percent of the population of SHH's defined service area reside in the two zip codes incorporating Franklin and Columbia and includes MRH in Columbia. WMC, whose zip code is 37067 in Franklin, is immediately adjacent to 37064 where the majority of the zip code's population is concentrated. MANY OF THE RESIDENTS OF ZIP CODES 38401 and 37064 HAVE A CLOSER COMMUTE TO THE SERVICES AVAILABLE AT THE EXISTING HOSPITALS."
"A REVIEW OD OTHER RECOGNIZED POPULATION SOURCES' PROJECTIONS FOR MAURY AND WILLIAMSON COUNTIES REVEAL SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER POPULATION PROJECTIONS THAN THE APPLICANT'S CONSULTANT."
"SPRING HILL'S HEALTH CARE RESOURCES HAVE BEEN GROWING AS WELL.......DURING THE WEEK THE PATIENT ACTIVITY (at the urgent care clcinic) IS 4-5 PATIENTS A DAY"
"ALTHOUGH THEY WERE NOT INVITED TO MAKE A PROPOSAL, BOTH MAURY AND WILLIAMSON COUNTY EMS OFFICIALS INDICATE THEY OFFERED TO PROVIDE SPRING HILL AND AMBULANCE BASED IN SPRING HILL EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2005. SPRING HILL OFFICIALS ARE CURRENTLY WORKING WITH HCA TO NEGOTIATE AMBULANCE SERVICES BY RURAL/METRO.....BEGINNING IN EARLY SEPTEMBER 2006."
I guess now the truth, from the very agency whose Board will hear this case, is out. Ther growth projections according to this reprot are false. This report is not from MRH or WMC, but rather from the state of TN. As well, this reinforces that there is no great unmet health care need in Spring Hill, as you guys do not use what you have now.
Whose ready to go on Wednesday, I know I am.
What a day!!!! The Health Services and Development Agency released its application summary regarding the Spring Hill hospital today, and guess what? An agency unrelated to WMC or MRH states that this CON does not meet the requirements set forth by the CON rules. I bet you will not hear Danny Leverette or his BFF Larry mention this huh? Did anyone else note how they conveniently left out the State Department of Health's statement in the Sunday paper that said they didn't need this hospital? Here are the take home points from today's release:
1) The population projections they supplied in their CON are incorrect. They applied the projected growth of Spring Hill to all of the Spring Hill Hospital's proposed service area including Franklin, Columbia, College Grove, and Sante Fe in order to generate the high growth rate that they used to attempt to justify the need for this hospital. The Agency saw right through this when they consulted other more reliable sources. The report reads as follows: 75% of the population of the population of SHH's defined service area reside in the two zip codes incorporating Franklin and Columbia and includes the Maury Regional Hospital in Columbia. Williamson Medical Center, whose zip code is 37067 in Franklin, is immediately adjacent to 37064 where the majority of the zip code's population is concentrated. Many of the residents of zip codes 38401 and 37064 have a closer commute to the services available at the existing hospitals.
The geographic boundaries of the zip codes 37179 and 37174 areas cover a much larger geographical area than the City of Spring Hill boundaries in which the 2005 City-wide Special Census was taken. ... Note the 54% difference in population numbers between the Dempsey, Dilling & Associates 2005 Special Census within the city limits of Spring Hill at 17,325 and RPC's Special Census adjusted Spring Hill 2005 Population estimate at 26,590. The major contributor to this difference is the 2005 Special Census within the Spring Hill City limits, while the RPC study includes the larger zip code area. Application of the 17.6% CAGR derived from the Dempsey, Dilling & Associates 2005 Special Census for the City of Spring Hill from the 2000 US Census to a larger population base number contained in the zip codes 37179 and 37174 increases the projected population numbers, because this methodology assumes that the population growth rate in the zip code area outside the city limits is the same as the growth rate within the city limits. A review of other recognized population sources' projections for Maury and Williamson Counties reveals significantly lower population projections than the applicant's (HCA's) consultant.
2) The preacher man's statements that his regional health care needs are not being met are shot down as the report clearly depicts the overwhelmingly underutilized services available in Spring Hill. Spring Hill's health care resources have been growing as well. The community's medical needs are being attended to by 9 full time primary care practitioners and 2 medical specialists and 11 medical sub-specialists who schedule office hours in Spring Hill on a half day/week basis. In April 2006, Maury Regional Hospital opened an Urgent Care Clinic which has office hours 8 AM to 4:30 PM, seven days per week. It is staffed by the 3 family practice physicians and a family practice physician's assistant who also practice in the Family Health Group offices next door. During the week the recent patient activity is 4-5 patients/day, while on the week-ends, patient visits are averaging 17-18 per day.
Earlier ths summer, Spring Hill published a Request for Proposal in which they requested the respondents to bid on providing emergency ambulance services based on 240 emergency calls per YEAR. Although they were not invited to make a proposal, both Maury and Williamson County EMS officials indicate they offered to provide Spring Hill an ALS ambulance based in Spring Hill effective July 1, 2006. Spring Hill officials are currently working with HCA to negotiate ambulance services by Rural/Metro Corporation based at the two Spring Hill Fire Stations on Beechcroft Road and Campbell Station Parkway beginning in early September 2006.
The primary service area hospitals have an actual bed count of 395 licensed beds and 370 staffed beds, and an additional 45 CON approved beds still to be introduced to the market place. When these beds are implemented, the surplus will increase to 180 beds according to the formula.
So the bottom line is this, there have been two agencies, the Tennessee Department of Health and the Health Services and Development Agency that have stated that the supposed need for this hospital is not there. So anyone wanna take a guess as to what the Board from the let's see, oh yeah, the Health Services and Development Agency might say?
You really need to re-read the whole thing and not 'lick the cream off the milk'...
Page 2 of the DOH report:
According to the applicant, the RPC report states the Spring Hill Hospital is not expected to serve all parts of these zip codes. RPC reports the hospital will attract primarily the part of their population that resides within 5 miles of Spring Hill.
Which part of that service area would be closer to WMC or MRH than Spring Hill Hospital?
About the 'other' growth projections reviewed, I sure hope they weren't from the same source that WMC used for their expansion CON (9,992 people in 2010), or from the Williamson County Planning Commission (is that really 8,583 people in 2010, really?) Don't even get me started on the TN DOH projections... The TN DOH is projecting a whopping 3,882 new people in Maury County between 2006 and 2010. Really, I'm not making this up.
Oh wait, page 8 of the HSDA report does include the Williamson County Planning Commission and the TN DOH data.
During the week, the patient activity is 4-5 patients a day, while on the weekends, patients visits are averaging 17-18 patients a day. (you conveniently left that part out)
17-18 patients per day on the weekends equates to about 2000 visits per year. I wonder how many more visits there would be if the facility were actually open past 4:30?
About the ambulance issue, how did that get thrown into the CON process? Last time I checked, the ambulance service is not a criteria reviewed by the HSDA.
No I did not leave that out, reread my post it clearly states "During the week the recent patient activity is 4-5 patients/day, while on the week-ends, patient visits are averaging 17-18 per day." Face it, the walls are falling down. If you think that this report was favorable towards the whole pro hospital side something is drastically wrong. The truth is that those of us opposed to the hospital were a little concerned that the big HCA lovefest may have affected the Board's good sense, but it seems that in fact all it has done is show how untruthful this CON is. Keep in mind that this is from the HEALTH SERVICES AND DEVELOPMENT AGENCY, not WMC or MRH.
Silverback,
do you not have any comment about the report stating that your needs are being met? Or the fact that the CON incorrectly assumed the communities of College Grove and Santa Fe will grow at the rate of Spring Hill, and thus had erroneous information? What about the Department of Health and the HSDA's report that after WMC finishes their construction that there will be a 180 bed surplus. You may say "oh look at WMC they are on diversion". Well they have more beds than Spring Hill does right now, and before the first shovel hits the ground for HCA, WMC will have 40 more beds.
Come on, admit it, things do not look so good for this CON. You are a smart guy, you have to see that. They were bright and shiny until the Department of Health and the HSDA's report came out. How come Gorilla did not make a post about the Department of Health's report or this one today. I know for a fact Chandler called him and made him aware of the report, as he was dying laughing because all the reasons that you all are citing for needing a hospital were shot down in this report.
The problem is this. The elitist people in Spring Hill cannot fathom that a regulatory body would disagre with them, hence the comment about the DOH's numbers. Hey guy, they are the authorities here, not you. You can disagree all you want with their numbers, but they are the numbers that will be used at the hearing. Sorry about your luck.
"Spring Hill's health care resources have been growing as well."
What is the next development that thoughtful, pro-active health planners would naturally recommend for this area? How would that logically support the well-documented growth that is occuring?
"The geographic boundaries of the zip codes 37179 and 37174 areas cover a much larger geographical area than the City of Spring Hill boundaries in which the 2005 City-wide Special Census was taken."
Is it likely that the growth in the Spring Hill area arbitrarily stopped at the city limit line? The HSDA report indicates a basis for, and understanding of, the RPC analysis.
Report seems to also mention that applicant will delicense 56 beds from other facilities in the planning area of middle Tennessee, resulting in no net new beds in the region.
Celebrate!
ciao'
Again that is a quote from the HCA's CON. The question then becomes, is there a greater need in Spring Hill than in the area were these beds are currently.
anonymous ,
Do you truly believe that Santa Fe is experiencing the growth that Spring Hill is? Do you think 4-5 visits a day justifies a need for a hospital? What about only 240 ambulance calls a year? Answer these questions with something besides "we want a hospital" or "we want to be equal" and maye someone would take you serious.
Silverback,
The ambulance service is a good example of how Leverette is in bed with HCA and refuses to consider any other offers. I think that is very pertinent to this whole situation and thus is why it was in this report.
It is interesting that the HSDA mentioned ambulances. Rural Metro knows that they face opposition in this area from the emergency service community. That is why medics from Knox County are posting comments here telling us how good Rural Metro is. I bet there will be someone from Rural Metro present Wednesday. It would not suprise me to see them cut and run either now or in three years if the con is not passed. Just ask Scotsdale AZ. The problem is now all of the good will with real emergency services are gone. When Rural Metro goes we will be left holding the bag with few options open to us.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Anonymous @ 00:26 said:
"The problem is this. The elitist people in Spring Hill cannot fathom that a regulatory body would disagre with them, hence the comment about the DOH's numbers. Hey guy, they are the authorities here, not you. You can disagree all you want with their numbers, but they are the numbers that will be used at the hearing. Sorry about your luck."
I do have a problem with a regulatory body projecting the population growth in all of Maury County (including Columbia, Mt. Pleasant and Spring Hill) between 2006 and 2010 to be a total of 3,882 people.
I'm pretty sure that Frank Tamberrino would also have a huge problem with the fact that the State was banking on those type of growth numbers for Maury County.
Disagree all you want. They are the final say. I am sure you will disagree with the vote on Wednesday to, but it will not matter.
I think many are missing a key concept here - yes, the DOH said there was not a need. But the DOH is not the BOARD who will be voting. See, DOH are state workers. The BOARD consists of appointed individuals, usually appointed by the governor. They are two different entities, two different groups of people. They do not "hang out" together , they do not work together. The BOARD is not state employess, but people with totally other occupations that the Governor picked. I am not saying this CON will or will not be approved, if you look at previous cases you will find that the DOH and the Board do not always come to the same conclusion. The DOH never sees the support/opposition letters, but the BOARD does. Again, two seperate entities. DOH only looks at numbers and stats, period. Board looks at all of it. So don't get too excited just yet...on either side!!
PS, Stop complaining about your local government so much...the reason most of these "boards" and other regulatory agencies exist is because some citizen complained that their tax dollars were not being spent wise enough and legislation was introduced to create this board or that agency for the purpose of "assuring" those dollars were being spent wisely...the result is more waste with more boards and agencies telling citizens what they can or can not do....
HMMMM Isnt the board representative of the HSDA?
The HSDA Application Summary is what the HSDA Board reads before the hearing. Face it the people who do the data collection for the HSDA Board clearly demonstrated there is not a need.
All I have to say is this - How dare anyone tell me that my kids do not need a hospital. For all of you opposed to the hospital who have a family, just take a second to think about your little boy or little girl. And God forbid you have an emergency situation at 7:00 am and it takes you an hour to get to Williamson Medical. A new hopsital would save lives, and that is what everyone needs to keep in mind.
I've been reading through these posts about WMC losing money, and blah blah blah, and there is no need for a new hospital. Well, I am 100% certain the thousand of children that live in Spring Hill not only NEED a hospital, but they deserve one. And I don't see how any human being can argue with me about that!
Youre right, Spring Hill, if they need a hospital, they need one that can take care of children. Here's a questions Mrs. Emotional. How many pediatric beds will this hospital have? 0 How many Pediatric Advanced Life Support Beds will this hospital have in its ER? 0 How many NICU beds will this hospital have? 0 So here's a question for you, isn't your child's life more important than some garbage "full service" campaign that will not even provide services for critically ill children. Chew on that and you will relaize that you do not even want this hospital. How dare someone who doesnt know what she is talking about try to get all emotional and use her child as a propaganda tool. You should care enough about your child to demand that this hospital provide the above services. Why don't you ask someone who has taken their child to a hospital that could not care for them and lost them. I can tell you as a mother who has lost a child due to an incompetent ER that this damn hospital would put more parents through what I went through. So you need to hush unless you know what you are talking about because you are really making those of us who have been through tragic losses very angry. How dare you! I will drive to Columbia or Franklin anyday because when I get there they can take care of my little girl. What the Hell use is a hospital if once you get their they are incapable of caring for your child because they do not offer pediatric care. You should be ashamed.
The state knows what is best for us, as they are the experts, not WMC, MRH, or HCA. They state clearly that we do not need a hospital, and that is good enough for me.
To anon 7/21 @ 1338
You are right it is about the children. I have two and their care is the most important thing to me.
There is something you are not taking into consideration. If a hospital is built in Spring Hill it will be a stop on the way to Nashville. If your child is sick or injured and truly needs an ER and you do not call 911 you are endangering them. That leads back to what i have been saying all along. Your anger should be directed at the attempt to give second rate ems care. If ems is not doing it's job then it does not matter where the ER is.
Also if a child is critical and ems is doing it's job the child will not be going to Spring Hill's hospital. Just like it is now the child is going to Vandy Peds ER either emergency by ambulance or by Life Flight helicopter. I have never seen hour transport times at any time of the day from this area, especially emergency traffic.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Right, the Emergency Medical Care is not exclusive to the people in the ambulance as you know firefighter. How many times have you worked to save a child only to have to take them to a hospital that, in your gut, you know was ill prepared to take care of them. You are right that a Spring Hill hospital would be a stop on the way to Nashville, but the stop is not without risk if the medical personnel cannot identify the subtle signs of clinical deterioration in the child. Please speak to how sensitive childrenare relative to declining stability during an emergency and the importance of having PALS certified people available.
It's easy to complain and find fault when you sit back and watch others come forward with plans of progression. Where were you as this city has grown? Why didn't you as citizens of Spring Hill and/or professionals in the field of EMS demand that your employers serve the growing needs of our community? Now that the opportunity is before us do you come forward and be opposed. One has to wonder what the motive is. Why aren't you asking WMC & MRH why they have failed miserably in recognizing the need of our rapidly growing community. MRH was to focused on growing south and WMC just dropped the ball. Again, why didn't you come forward to encourage and demand for your community? As professionals in the field of healthcare your compassion and concerns for Spring Hill should have been front and center long ago. I wonder.
MRH and WMC have provided service to this area. There is a new urgent care clinic that open before this CON issue started, a CON was approved for an Imaging Center in Spring Hill, there are several new primary care MDs there, and the ambulance services provided the 240 runs from last year. The problem is that is it very hard to justify putting more services in an area that does not use what is already there. It is almost impossible to prove a need when the services already provided are not being used. You all have access to care, it just isn't on your terms, and that is what drives you all crazy. When you start using the urgent care clinic more than 4-5 times a day, it will be open later. When you start using the ambulance more than once a day, there will be more coverage. You have to show a tangible demand, not just an idea that you want more services. It is equitable to this. Let's say that you have a refrigerator full of beans and potatoes that you refuse to eat. If you stand out on the street and state that you have a NEED for food because you do not have access to food, it is very hard to take you seriously. Hospitals are not like big box stores. The financial impact is much more severe. Just ask the little hardware store across from Dr. Gardner how well their business is since Lowe's and Home Depot moved in. The effect is much worse with hospitals. There is, contrary to the city leaders' beliefs, only so much healthcare dollar to go around. Use the services you have and MRH and WMC will put more there, but don't disown them just because they do not jump at your every beck and call.
Do you plan for the future in your household?
You act like this hospital will be built next month. This hospital will be opened in 2010. What will the population be when and if WMC or MRH EMS decide to plan. They have only come forward with their plan since the announcement of Spring Hill's plan.
Do you own a business? Wouldn't it be prudent to plan for the future.
To anon 7/21/ @ 20:16
You are correct, i have seen patients die in others counties i have worked in. There is no more frustrating feeling then giving 100% on a patient, child or adult and seeing the ER not be able continue the care. You are also right that emergency care is not confined to ambulances. It is a system starting with the dispatchers, then ems and then the ER. If any part of the system is not at the top of their game then the whole system breaks down as you know. If we are going to have a hospital then it had better be ready to treat the patients that come through the doors.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Who convinced you guys that MRH and WMC have not been working in Spring Hill? The Spring Hill Imaging Center was approved long ago, WMC is undergoing expansion, as is MRH. Do you not think that is planning for the future? And as far as EMS goes you would have an excellent ambulance sitting in Spring Hill right now, for the last 20 days, if your leaders had not of played the cocky game. The Rural Metro contract is not signed yet, and do you know why? Because the CON is not determined. HCA can say all day long that it is not contingent on the CON, but if it were not the contract would be signed. Why settle for hamburger meat (Rural Metro) when you could have Steak (WMC EMS)?
To anon 7/21 @ 21:41
You say i am complaining and finding fault. I sit back and watch others bring plans of progression. You question my motives.
First, i will give you my motives. They are simple, i have a wife and two children. I want to damn well know that the ems care they recieve is the best they can get! Unlike many people that live in Spring Hill i have the experience and training to know the difference. It is real simple when you see the care provided by services like Rural Metro and then compare them to wmc. I have seen patients die in front of me that never should have because ems was not up to the task. I have seen patients that should not be alive, survive because of the care given by wmc medics. It is easy to be opposed when you know that the service you are going to get will not be up to the task.
You question why i have not pushed my employer. I work for Franklin Fire, so until Franklin takes over fire supression for Spring Hill then there is nothing my employer can do. I have been involved with this since it started. I spoke with members of Spring Hill's fire dept in 2004 when the first talk of fire based ems began. I supported fire based ems then and i support it now. The city has said the goal is fire based ems. It seems to me that Spring Hill failed to plan for the future if that was the goal. They have had since 2004 to budget money and do the background work to have ambulances in the fire halls. It was evidently not critical enough to keep the property tax and use the money to have paramedic ambulances in the fire dept. Why has no one asked the city that. The ems issue did not become pressing until hca entered the picture. Interesting timing. My compassion and concern has been front and center for 15 years for all of Williamson county including Spring Hill.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Fire fighter, just know that these are the desperate hours of panic. It is similar to Sadaam being in the fox hole or spider hole whatever it was. Thank you for your years of service, and thank you for helping bring out the fact that if Spring Hill was so concerned about the ambulance issue, they would have brought it up before now. The only reason that it has come up now is because all of the complaints that they initially tried to use to establish the need for a hospital were related to MRH's response times. Finally they realized these complaints had NOTHING to do with a hospital, so they brought up the ambulance issue. If Leverette was so concerned regarding ambulances he would have allowed you the fire folks in Spring Hill to do what Scott Storey trained them to do months ago and that is take care of people.
you know it's quite sad as to how this has turned into an "us vs. them" and gotten quite personal from both standpoints (and both sides have done it, so no one can bow out of that). This issue is about the hospital, but it has been made into a lot more than that with all of the rhetoric that has been pushed into these 'discussions'.
My thoughts:
it will happen, if not now then probably within the next 2-3 years. You can't deny the fact that the population of SH is growing at a very rapid rate and will need to have a dedicated resource at some point. When and what that is I don't know (i'm not an expert). I know what I would like to see, but that might or might not line up with what the city needs.
I am curiuos though for those that are against the current HCA hospital; if WMC or MRH were to come back with a CON to place a facility of their own in SH, would you be as staunchly against it as you are now? I mean, if the need is still not there (and you can't tell me that THAT much will change in 6 months or so) would you rail against them as you have with HCA? Or would you take a more lax approach or stay out of it altogether?
we'll see how it goes tomorrow.
Wasn't WMC about the size of the proposed SHH when it first started? I seem to remember going to the ER there back in the early to mid 90's and it was quite a small place.
Populations will continue to grow, in this area and others. The arguement here really should be "when" Spring Hill will get a hospital, not "if". Again - please keep in mind we are talking about 2010 here, not today. Some of you would have probably said we wouldn't have dozens of strip malls, a Home Depot and a Lowe's today if you had been asked back in 2000...
Right, it also was not the standard of care at that time to have a cath lab or a NICU. Guess what? Now it is. The everchanging healthcare environment requires that the standard of care be met or at least exceeded with new services, as if they do not start out equal, then by the time it is built, they will already be behind.
I know that you all are worried, as the Agency that we are going in front of has already released a summary ripping through HCA's false information. I would say go to bed, take some Nexium, and get there early in the morning. It will be interesting to say the least.
Ok, so are some of you claiming there will *never* be a need for a hospital here, and that WMC and MRH can continue to grow to meet the demands of this population?
Where would we be of that was the attitude taken when WMC got started?
Again - this is a question of when SH will get a hospital, not if.
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