Some people never learn. Nothing like taking a little bad PR and then creating more on your own. It will be interesting to see the argument for this one.
For all of the hospital supporters out there, you shouldn't lose too much sleep over this decision being overturned. You will however lose more of your tax money! Lawyers are expensive too...
Nashville Business Journal
Tuesday, August 08, 2006
MRH and WMC appeal decision
Posted by Gorilla in the Corner at 2:12 PM
Labels: County Government, Spring Hill Hospital
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IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: The information on this website is a series of personal opinions and is not meant to reflect an official position by the City of Spring Hill.
116 comments:
Why, oh Why must MRH and WMC continue to try and alienate the residents of Spring Hill?
People understand the innitial objections, but continuing to fight this *will* end up hurting them both!
Sorry off topic. I would like to hear you talk about the voter turnout and how low it was. Spring Hill is now in a position to make real decisions for both counties. Brentwood has never really decided to be part of the county voting system as far as numbers of votes go. Wouldn't it be great to see Spring Hill citizens run and win some of these county wide seats.
Seems like they are doing the smart thing. Appealing a decision and allowing us to pay for it.
Mr.Walters leaves MRH, right before it collapses in its own multiple failures.
NOW, MRH, (pushed by their Board of Directors, headed by Mr.Hickman, who also heads First Farmers and Merchants Bank), wants to waste even more Maury County taxpayer money by appealing a
7-1 decision.
Why did they waste all that money taking care of all those people in the southern counties by buying their failing hospitals!
Amazing.
Is this based on more jealousy of Spring Hill?
Or just being sore losers?
Are they afraid of the competition?
What they will be doing is alienating even more Spring Hill and surrounding people, for even a longer time.
We need to find out every business that MRH Board of Directors run or are a part of and boycott them, forever.
Gorilla, please find out what business involvement the MRH Board of Directors have so I can do my deal level best to have nothing to do with them.
If a hospital is needed, why are you so worked up? They will present their case and HCA will present theirs. If everything is on the up and up, you should have nothing to worry about. However, from what I hear from those who were there, the argument for this hospital was not very strong when it was presented. The TriStar attorney was apparently very frazzled by the woman who cast the descenting vote.
I was there at the CON hearing and the argument by the people of Spring Hill, HCA and their lawyer blew the MRH/WMC argument into bits. There was no comparison, it was like Spring Hill and HCA were the NFL and MRH/WMC, wasting all that taxpayer money, were a mid-level HS team.
Actually the HCA lawyer was not as familar with growth figures as he possibly could have been but those figures he was using were actually very conservative.
Listen, WMC will in no way be able to take care of the growth they have in Williamson County. WMC was so wrong about Spring Hills growth figures before. They projected Spring Hill at 8900 pop. by 2010, what was there expert drinking when they did that report? How far off were they on the rest of WC?
MRH has too many beds and too bad a reputation. If they could just keep the people from Columbia from going to WMC and Nashville they would be close to full.
Seven of those eight objective professionals thought that Spring Hill and HCA had, by far, the strongest argument.
They will again.
Chandler, baby, we're so glad you are back. We have missed you, or at least I have.
You are one of the biggest reasons Spring Hill became a unified city and one of the major reasons we won the CON vote in a total blow out.
By the way, why did they not ask you to speak?
And, yes, we did not expect you to roll over and play dead but we did think WMC was a bit smarter than to join with MRH. All that bad PR will hurt WMC more.
You will loose again. There has never been a CON vote overturned by a judge.
We do not want you to play dead. We were hoping you would take all this taxpayer money you both will spend on this appeal and use it to try to compete with us instead of trying to force us to use your hospitals, one which you work at now and one which you used to work at.
Please continue to attack Spring Hill, its people, Danny, David and whomever and whatever else you can attack.
You help us so much.
Why is anyone suprise by the appeal. Everyone knew WMC/MRH would appeal, just as HCA would have if things would have gone the other way.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
A certain somebody that you all like to beat up on, made that same Dukes of Hazzard parody a few weeks ago. Doesn't everyone get it? Danny can do what he wants, because there is no one willing to stand up to him. He has surrounded himself with people who believe every word that he says. That is why the town is in the mess it is in now. He mentions hospital and everyone rallies. He mentions speeding and everyone outcries. How about mentioning that while his buddy is on here bashing people, we have got kids sitting at Spring Hill High School that are not registered? Danny has not given that argument his approval yet, so the talking heads can address that. This is the Danny Leverette fan club page. Thankfully this argument goes before an administrative law judge. Whoever posted that the HCA attorney tore MRH and WMC apart must have overlooked the fact that it was shown that the DOH and HCA's growth projections only varied by 4 % from 2000-2005 (which was during a period of 125% growth) and the projections for 2005-2010 suddenly varied by 14% or so. HCA did not and could not explain this other than stating "oh there will be growth." They looked foolish as person after person got up there and had to admit they didnt know where this number came from. Then the proponents looked really bad when Danny Leverette got up there and stated what I had said all along, that this was all about tax revenue. It was clear that this was about money for Spring Hill from the start, not about healthcare. Then when Spring Hill projected its Medicare occupancy of this new hospital to be into the 40% range, it was laughable. Then when MRH clearly showed a decline in its inpatient business and an increase in outpatient services, HCA had no response. If you think that HCA tore MRH apart you must have been as lost as Danny. You are right, no decision has been overturned. But, no CON has been this highly contested either, or this politically charged.As far as why I did not speak, I had the opportunity to and declined. The proof was in our presentation which was clear. The board was clearly tired of hearing citizens ramble about how they had some negative outcome because they CHOSE to drive themselves to the hospital rather than call an ambulance. This weariness was clearly depicted when the gentleman stated "If you have something new to add come forward." By the way, I guess you didn't notice when the board member asked about pediatric services and HCA had to admit that there will be no inpatient specialied pediatric services at this hospital. So all the emotional hype sick children being close to home was revealed to be just that, HYPE. Caldwell and the others executed a well thought out plan. They saved face with the public, while asking just the questions we needed to have asked for an appeal. If you are so confident that you need the hospital, why are you worried. If you truly need it and HCA has a strong case you will get it. I can see why HCA is a little worried about the appeal, since emotional outcries from people who are so smart that they drive themselves to the hospital rather than calling an ambulance will have no place in these proceedings.
You know what is even better, we all have to foot the bill for this and there is nothing you can do about it. That has to make you mad. Your county taxes could go up because they are having to appeal this. Guess where the nice, tax generating houses are in Maury County? Not in Culleoka. That's right, Spring Hill. Hey thanks for paying for the appeal. MRH owes you one. CA
Chandler,
I watched the entire Con hearing from home. You keep saying that Danny Leverette said he wanted the hospital to basically generate taxes for the city. What I heard him say was that he didn't want a county hospital that would COST tax payer money to build.
About Maury Regional Hospital: I met person after person from Columbia when I collected signatures for the petition. There were more than I could count who wanted to sign because of some horrible experience they or a family member had to endure at the hands of MRH. All of them wanted a closer alternate choice for a hospital Most of them told me they choose to travel to WMC. HMMM. MRH=to many beds WMC=too few beds (lately). Anyway, the only people from Columbia I met, who would not sign were employees of MRH and were worried about their jobs. If you ask me, it would have been extremely rude for HCA to address the empty beds at MRH. It would have seemed like mudslinging but perhaps MRH's poor quality of care was the "gorilla in the room" that day at the CON hearing.
Looks like old "blah-blah" is back in the name of Chandler Thanks for keeping us unified, CA!
Appeal? Another defeat for MRH and WMC. Just a waste of money.
Too bad...they could build more cath units with that money, Chandler!
OOps, I meant to say "Gorilla in the Corner"
Actually, and once the transcription of the hearing is available I will post it on my site, Danny was asked "Mayor Leverette, did you approach Maury Regional or Williamson Medical about putting a hospital in Spring Hill." His response, from what was discernable, was "Just like Elliot said, it's all political. Neither one of them would be willing to put a hospital in Spring Hill." He was then asked why he chose HCA, his response was "They have the experience necessary and they will generate taxes for the city." Ok, MRH has plenty of experience managing satellite facilities. I think if you look around, there are plenty of counties that MRH is and has helped out of a bind.
Secondly, anon 1635, you may actually be realizing the reason why MRH and WMC are concerned. This money is nothing compared to what they stand to lose. Once they start losing paying patients to the FOR PROFIT TriStar hospital, they will not have the funds to expand, like adding additional cath labs. Just so you are aware, cause obviously you are unaware as evidenced by your statement, the furnishing of cath labs are much more expensive than the cost of this appeal.
If you guys feel that HCA truly had an excellent performance at the hearing, you have nothing to worry about. If everything is on the up and up, the administrative attorney will uphold the CON. If he or she does not then the appeal is granted. Then if the Board chooses to do what is politically safe for them again, we have a situation where they can looked at very closely. I do not think that will be the case. Dr. Caldwell made some statements that very much show that he realized that an appeal would be sought. He is a smart man, and he did what was safe for his board. Either way someone would appeal it. Why not grant it and not have to deal with an angry mob that would write 10000 letters to the governor asking for the CON process to be discontinued. After all, he wants to go away anyhow. They did what was safe for them.
Now the public is out of it and it is in a judge's hands. A person whose background is the law, not social fanfare. I think HCA's attorney showed his lack of knowledge very clearly when he could not explain the growth variance between the DOH and the CON app. No one I have heard on here has managed to explain why the 4% variance during the 125% growth is suddenly going to increase to 14% or so variance in the next four years. Can anyone explain that?
Again, keep in mind that if MRH and WMC need more money, it is as easy as asking for more taxes, after all the governing bodies of both counties were opposed to this hospital. Thanks for paying for the appeal, I am sure they appreciate it.
Even though you support the Spring Hill hospital, you are paying for the appeal. That has to hurt. CA
What hurts is that you seem to be more concerned about your taxes going up than the quality of heathcare offered in the community where you live.
Guess what is coming MRH and WMC,
a boycott of your hospitals.
We know you will now be spending about $150,000.00 a month in legal fees fighting to keep SOring Hill from having our hospital that you are so afraid of!
Your goal is to appeal and appeal the hospital, and delay the inevitable, which is that we will get our hospital. You only want to hurt SPring Hill and the only person that is willing to defend you is Chandler.
Why not spend these millions of dollars you will be spending, and already have spent, on legal fees on schools (God knows Maury County needs them!).
So we will soon organize a boycott of your hospitals.
And, we will boycott every business that supports your effort to keep us from having our hospital.
It is time for an all out war against you and your selfish interests.
That is great!!! Drive yourself to Nashville with a stroke, heart attack, or seizing child. That shows real concern and real need for a hospital. The thing is that you guys dont use MRH or WMC inpatient services anyway. You use their outpatient services. If you feel that driving yourself to Nashville during an Emergency is best, go ahead. It will not hurt anyone but you. Oh yeah, the ambulances, Rural Metro or the existing ones, if you are truly sick, they will be taking you to the closest hospital.
As far as Me being the only person that speaks up for MRH or WMC, I am the only one who will even entertain the idea of debating in on a board that allows people to post anonymously. So again, why are you so worked up, if everything is on the up and up with HCA's numbers, why are you worried? Why would anyone question that Spring Hill will be bigger than Orlando or Knoxville in 2010?
I miss your signs, put them back up!! Especially the ones with the Gorilla Glue, oops, Unite Spring Hill logo on it.
The tax comment should show you that this hospital may generate tax money as Danny says, but if MRH and WMC get into debt guess who picks up the bill? You and me!! So while you are paying more for care at HCA, you are also going to be paying more county tax as well.
FInally, good thing you brought up quality of care. Dr. Caldwell said it best, a COMMUNITY hospital does not need a cath lab or a NICU. Can someone show me a sign that has described this as a COMMUNITY hospital? No. This has been described as a FULL SERVICE hospital. So if you have your baby at the hospital and they are sick, guess what? You will be in Spring Hill and the newborn will be in Nashville. Yep, that is care close to home. Pediatrics, we don't need no stinking pediatrics, right? That is what HCA thinks, since there will be no peds floor. Now WMC does not have peds inpatients either, but they also don't have a huge peds population that we see. Oh yeah, and they are not saying that they provide them. The best thing is Vandy, and when your child needs inpatient care, that is where they will go. If they are closer to MRH, they go to MRH.
Good luck with your heart attack. Oh yeah, that's right, you will remember not to go there when you have one right? That is what Dr. Caldwell said. He said that people wiill know where to go. RIght!! When people have heart attacks, that is when they think the clearest. Stress free!!
Thanks for allowing debate on this again. I hope me and others can keep this civil. I apologize again for getting out of hand last time. Nonetheless, this is a good issue to debate, as it is the classic for profit versus non profit debate.
CA,
Who the hell ever said Spring Hill would be 200,000 people in 2010?
http://www.c-dh.net/articles/2006/08/09/top_stories/01mrh.txt
Quit spouting off your propaganda and get back to reality!
People, people we heard the same rhetoric before and will hear the same rhetoric again. THEY LOST and now are trying to recover! The new spin is we will pay for it and what fine hospitals both are. MRH & WMC know they are walking a fine public relations line by filing an appeal. They expect the attention to peak and then die so they can conduct business behind the cloak. I suggest we, other than just utilizing this blog, keep the pressure up publicly. This appeal is clearly a delay tactic in hopes of gaining patient relationships from our rapidly growing area. This is the gamble both entities are willing to take. Will the gamble pay for the cost and bad public relations they are going to incur. I think not. Again, prepare for a "your taxes will go up, what great facilties MRH & WMC are, and another round of WE WILL WIN campaign. I enjoyed watching many of the loud individuals on the opposition side have to eat some humble pie. All be patient, the huimble pie piece will be bigger the next time.
Some individuals have lots of education and little common sense. I commend Mayor Leverette and the Alderman for striving to keep taxes low, require developers to pay their way, improving our quality of life, attract businesses who pay taxes and not create an additional tax burden for me. Keep up the great work BOMA.
The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that carries any reward.
John Maynard Keynes (1883 - 1946)
That would be your attorney at the CON hearing. Oh yeah and Research and Planning Consultants. From the HCA submitted Spring Hill Service area chart. Year 2010 -- 170,522 and YEar 2014 235,382. Now you keep shouting, oh this is only for those people in SPring Hill and the 5 miles around it. So you all define your service area as that on this very blog. If that is your service area, then the numbers above indicate that you will be bigger than Orlando, Knoxville, and other towns. I am excited. I am even holding a contest for people to name the stadium in Spring Hill. I mean 200,000 people, we have the numbers of Knoxville, don't we deserve a stadium? My regional football needs are not being met!!
There is a difference between losing and getting caught in a political battle between the governor and the HSDA!! The HCA attorney did not even get to present the information as to how the CON meets "orderly development of healthcare." And while you are praising him for his fine performance, keep in mind that he was counseled by Mrs. Flowers for trying to play dirty and jab at the MRH attorney with the MRH attorney not having time to respond. In fact, she even allowed him to respond to HCA's jab.
I mean why would MRH and HCA be doing something behind a cloak. If you really won, you really won. If you can close your eyes and know that the decision was based on the facts presented, then why even comment? Just because they are fighting back, doesn't mean they are awful. If someone screwed you over at your job would you fight back? Or would you get on a blog and post an anonymous comment?
It is interesting that the word CLOAK appeared in an anonymous post.
CA
I cheer Leverette too. For having the testicular fortitude to stand up in public and make a fool of himself. People who use the "common sense not book sense" argument are usually people who need to justify their insecurity around educated people. By the way, can we see Danny's resume? What qualifications does he have to be mayor, except riding in on the coat tails of a tragedy?
SPRING HILL - Spring Hill police are on the scene at the Penske tire company at Port Royal Road and Saturn Parkway where threats were allegedly made by two people who had been working at the building.
Spring Hill Police Chief John Smith said the Penske building evacuated the building as a precautionary measure.
An ambulance has been stationed nearby in the event of any medical emergencies.
Wonder who provided that ambulance? Must have been Rural Metro, because Lord knows, Spring Hill is just ignored by WMC and MRH.
We will be inundated with the threat of Maury County raising our taxes. Which is inevitable with or without the Spring Hill Hospital. They just have a better excuse to blame others.
Using the history of raising taxes is a generic lame argument employed by many as a scare tactic. History repeats itself, which makes it easy for the simple minded to say, "I TOLD YOU SO."
CA said @ 20:50
Thanks for allowing debate on this again. I hope me and others can keep this civil. I apologize again for getting out of hand last time.
CA said @ 21:47
I cheer Leverette too. For having the testicular fortitude to stand up in public and make a fool of himself. People who use the "common sense not book sense" argument are usually people who need to justify their insecurity around educated people. By the way, can we see Danny's resume? What qualifications does he have to be mayor, except riding in on the coat tails of a tragedy?
In a span of 57 minutes he said one thing and did another. Surprise, Surprise either debate or critize. However, citizens know which is preferred!
From the CON Application...
Year 2010 -- 170,522 Includes:
37064 - 47,113
38401 - 57,880
37046 - 3,355
38482 - 1,802
Spring Hill/Thompson's Station - 39,067
Year 2014 -- 235,382 Includes:
37064 - 52,174
38401 - 61,129
37046 - 3,428
38482 - 1,891
Spring Hill/Thompson's Station - 56,735
I still can't believe that you would fall for all of the propaganda being fed to you from WMC and MRH.
Can you not agree that Robert Otwell's statement to the MRH Board as reported by the Daily Herald that HCA projects Spring Hill to be larger than Knoxville is a bold face lie?
Speaking of lying, what are your thoughts about Robert Otwell's response that the MRH Acute Care Facility in Spring Hill operates from 8 to 8 on WEEKDAYS when directly asked by the HSDA board?
To anon 8/9 @21:51
Sorry to tell you this but Rural Metro has signed nothing yet. I even heard some question as to them getting cold feet about this. Oh and You cannot say wmc is ignoring them when they are still meeting with wmc as of this week.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
or the oppositions attorney stating that Columbia might pick up 1,500 residents in the next few years. I'm sure the Mayor of Columbia wasn't very happy about his "FRIENDS" painting a doom and gloom picture of his city.
When the transcripts are posted please post the entire transcript not what you would like for people to believe.
ole fire fighter
You have it turned around. Spring Hill is not the one doing the ignoring. In fact, you might be surprised to learn that Mayor Leverette actually invited WMC & MRH to make a presentation. Mayor Leverette is a bigger man than me because once I found out about the appeal of the CON I wouldn't let either present anything to the board.
No, you are incorrect Rural Metro is not getting cold feet.
I hope the board approves Rural Metro as our ambulance provider. The appeal of the approved CON for the Spring Hill Hospital clearly indicates that our leaders MUST provide for our city.
If our leaders don't move forward we will be in the same political battle twenty years from now.
BOMA continue to move forward with a vision for our city!
ol fire fighter,
I am not sure how old you are but do you really think in your right mind, and you usually make good sense, that Spring Hill will ever give WMC or MRH a snow balls chance in hell of ever doing anything relating to ambulance service in Spring Hill now that they are still trying to stop our hospital? Heck no.
In fact, I wonder what Columbia and Franklin will do when HCA builds a big ol'clinic in central Columbia and around Cool Springs/ Franklin to draw away even more patients!!!!!
Great idea, right.
There will never be an ambulance service from MRH or WMC in Spring Hill as long as any of the people now alive here remember what they have done to us!
Chandler,
We are on to your twisting of the truth.....
I would never have believed that a hard working, tax paying guy like you would be supporting such a waste of tax payers money.
Was'up wit that?
My comments regarding civil were in regards to the people on this site. Danny is very aware that many feel he is incompetent.
The number came from HCA's CON, not MRH's spin. You guys seem to be the spin masters, as no one has taken on the task of explaining the ever widening variance between the DOH's numbers and the projected growth. That is why the appeal process is so great. Now instead of HCA taking cheap shots and then running out of time, they can be cross examined and made to answer the tough questions. No one expects you guys to see that HCA really screwed this up. Their CON was terrible. The truth is that if their CON was not full of false accusations and half truths, the appeal would not be occuring. You all forget that Mr. Miller and Mr. Otwell do not make the decision independently. The board of each hospital has to vote for it. Maybe you should ask the local here Lynch how he voted.
If anyone hates anyone, you guys clearly seem to hate the fact that WMC and MRH questioned this. Why are you all so upset about this appeal? Why do you have to lose if there truly is a need for this hospital? This blog was essentially dead until the appeal came out. If you are so confident why be so upset about it and threat boycotting, etc. The truth is HCA pulled a fast one and took advantage of a rift between the HSDA and Bredesen.
Think about this. The person who voted against the CON was an attorney who works very closely with the HSDA as she is over commerce and insurance. This decision will be made by a judge who is an EXPERT in Administrative Law. He will go by the black and white numbers. He will hear testimony from both sides and cross examinations. HCA's attorney will not be able to get off the hook with "I don't know" this time. Did no one notice that Flowers was eating him alive or did everyone forget this?
I am sure everyone has conveniently forgotten this. Flowers is an attorney, the person hearing this will be a judge and former attorney with no conflicts with Bredesen. This decision will be based on the statements contained in the CON application. If they are proof of need, there will be a hospital. If they are not, there will not be. It is that simple. If we lost so badly last time, and lost because we failed to discount HCA, what are you so worried about?
Truthfully, you won't feel a bit of tax increase from this. That will be down the road if the hospital is built. So why worry? If you think the case will stand up in court, then why argue?
It is ridiculous to think that this appeal means that WMC and MRH have it out for MRH. If any of you were wrong, you would appeal a decision as well. IF not what are you worth? No one on this blog would take a screw job and just move on.
If HCA had not of gotten the CON approved, would you be so critical of them if they appealed or would they be the Saviour of Spring Hill still?
Here's a thought, become your own county. At this point it isn't going to make Williamson and Maury county very upset because Spring Hill has become the problem citizens always bitchin and moanin about something and about how they have been treated unfairly and such and such. Don't you get tired of complaining?
There is no conspiracy theory against Spring Hill. Just because you are not the top priority for everyone everywhere doesn't mean you are being done wrong. Create your own county, that would be best and get the hell out of ours. Good riddence, Tired of all your bitchin.
The numbers from the CON are right as you posted, hence my including the statement from the surrounding six zip codes. But Gorilla and others state that the service area is within five miles of Spring Hill. SO which is it? Six zip codes or five miles. You seem to be doing the spinning now.
The only reason Leverette is trying to work with EMS now is because he has to to save face after having to admit that he wants the tax money that HCA is generating and that is why he left them out of the ambulance and hospital offers to start with. He admitted at the CON hearing that he did not send a Request to Provide Service to Williamson and MRH initially.
If any body is a bigger man than anyone it would be Allen Lovett. After hearing Leverette's too little too late comment about four thousand times, I would let him fix his own problem. However because WMC is always going to be willing to help, Lovett is working with him. Even when the BOMA was badmouthing WMC, he was right there offering services. He is a freakin saint compared to Leverette.
Furthermore, wonder who was at the evacuation providing ambulance services today? Answer that or will you pretend that is not a pertinent question. I bet it was Rural Metro, huh? CA
I, for one, don't take issue with the appeal. It is part of the process and comes with no surprise.
I, however, take great issue with Mr. Otwell telling his board that 'someone smart' convinced the state that Spring Hill is going to be larger than Orlando or Knoxville and that's the only reason the CON was approved.
You say that the population projection of Spring Hill being 200,000+ comes from the CON itself. Well, site the specific source and we'll see if you are right.
"But Gorilla and others state that the service area is within five miles of Spring Hill." CA
That would be what the CON calls THE PRIMARY SERVICE area, something that WMC should know quite a bit about, considering Spring Hill is NOT IN THEIR PRIMARY SERVICE area.
Stop dodging the question...
Why did Otwell tell his board that Spring Hill is going to be bigger than Knoxville?
The CON cites the service area as being that population but states that it is six zip codes. You all chant that the hospital will not effect the existing hospitals because it will only serve Spring Hill and a five mile area around Spring Hill. SO again, is it six zip codes or five miles? If it is six zip codes, then your argument about travel time turns against you, because as the DOH report stated, most of that population in the six zip codes live closer to WMC or MRH. You cant use the number that includes WIlliamson and Maury on one hand and then turn around and claim five miles on the other. The truth is you had an argument without this garbage. Spring Hill is growing fast. That should have been the argument. You could have probably won it with the numbers just for SPring Hill and Thompson Station, and that would have been truthful. However that is not the route that HCA chose to take.
Here is an interesting situation that is upcoming. The psych hospital in Thompson Station may be up for CON soon. When the psych hospital was to be placed near WMC, HCA argued that there was no need for more beds in this (including Spring Hill) area. So they are going to find themselves in a quandry when they have to argue for this hospital and against that hospital (because they were very involved in the argument against the psych hospital last year) with one argument being this drastic need for beds, and the other being no need for beds. How odd is that? Maybe that is why these two appealed. How discredited would HCA be if they had to argue both ways? I obviously am going to be accused of spinning the truth on my other comments because it is not what you want to hear. However take time to think about and answer the above question. WMC argued that there was a need for more PSYCH beds, not more inpatient medical beds, just to put that whole issue out before you respond. CA
We need a psych hospital in this area. SeniorHealth was a done deal until Vanderbilt did the pushing, not HCA.
Your spinning is making me dizzy...
I am not dodging the question. That comment came from you guys, not him. You guys claimed that was your service area, and then turned around and said that five miles around Spring Hill was your border for the service area. So you are constantly changing your service area to meet your immediate needs. When you need a big number you include six zip codes, when you need to argue that this will not impact WMC and MRH you use the five mile statement.
He got the comment from your CON that states the service area will have that many people. I can see how he may get confused as your service area keeps changing argument to argument. CA
What about the new stadium in Spring Hill? Anyone wanting to help name it check out the site.
Go back and read HCA's argument against the psych hospital when you have settled your dizziness down. We need psych beds, that is what WMC argued. HCA because it was going to acquire TN Christian and had MTMHI, argued because they thought they were going to lose business. Pretty much the same arguments you have as to why WMC and MRH are so evil for protesting this hospital.
You cannot pick and choose what your service area is going to be, pick one and stick with it. That may be the downfall of HCA in this. HCA will not lose this because of a lack of growth. They will lose this because of a lack of careful documentation of this need. If the CON was not so poorly written, HCA would have this all wrapped up. CA
"He got the comment from your CON that states the service area will have that many people."
Again, CA, for the last time. Site where the CON states that Spring Hill will be the size of Chattanooga.
That's what Otwell said, he did not say that Spring Hill, Franklin and Columbia will be the size of Chattanooga...
Gorilla has a picture that should help with your confusion regarding the Service Area and where the RPC hospital utilization projections come from...
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7710/1909/1600/Where will the patients come from.0.png
Again, mysterious anonymous poster, no where does the CON specifically say Knoxvile or Orlando. However anyone can look up the population of these cities and compare it to what HCA claims Spring Hill will have. HCA apparently did not proof the CON before turning it in. CA
OK, so by your map, 80% of 200000 people will live in the 5 mile radius, or 160000 people. That is almost 140000 more than we have now. Where are they going to come from? This is still a grossly incorrect projection. The only confusion that exists is with you guys. By your own pretty little map you say that you will take 15% of WMC's paying customers, but in your CON you say the impact will be minimal. Which is it? 15% or minimal? CA
Geezz Chandler, do your posts HAVE to be so pickin' long, repetitve, and quantitively profuse? (this is a rhetorical question, don't have to answer) Calm down and breath.
Here's one you can answer. If Spring Hill is NOT using the inpatient services How does this private hospital pose such a threat to WMC? 15% does seem "minimal" to me. If we are using outpatient services so much, wouldn't it be nice, since we have issues that seem to be minor health issues, to have a "Community Hospital" to serve us so we don't have to drive so far with our non-life threatening emergencies? Seems that Franklin is growing fast enough to make up for any losses WMC would incur from Spring Hill patients using their own services within their own city limits. It would also decrease the insane wait time at WMC to get stitches and broken bones cared for, thereby increasing the quality of care. Heck, I might just decide to become a loyal WMC patient/customer. Choice is good.
The rest of you, Get onto HCA to get their stats sources more together and not get into such an embarrassing cross examination with some one like Ms. Flowers at the appeals hearing.
I also noticed Otwell's lies about the hours of service their Urgent care facility is open. He said it was open until 5pm but they were extending the hours soon. Its open till 4:30 and I was there when they were turning parents with sick children away at exactly 4:30 last month.
To anon @ 22;39 and 22:58
First The appeal neither suprises me or bothers me. I thought they would appeal. Just like the con the appeal will be decided by people who know about hospitals than myself.
I did not say that either side was ignoring the other. If they are stil talkng then neither side is ignoring anyone.
The cold feet is just a word around fire/ems circles. I do know wmc is meeting with Spring HIll.
What I question is what is being negotiated with R/M if as late as this week they are still talking with wmc. More than one person on this site has made the claim that Spring HIll will set all of the protocals and the terms of service. My question is then, If that is the case what is preventing anything from being signed. Also if they are just fixing small details then why are they still looking at other proposals.
I am not sure what my age has to do with anything, but 37. Yes if wmc comes in with a new proposal that tops R/M I would hope that we could put anger aside and pick the best ems.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
I would suspect that WMC is still being talked to for leverage. If Rural Metro and WMC are forced to compete, you will truly see the best possible plan.
This is an extremely intelligent decision by the City of Spring Hill in my opinion.
That may be the case I do not know. Just remeber it is only competition if both sides have a chance to win based on the latest proposal. If that is the case then what does that mean for all of the people that have said that R/M has already been picked? Then that leads to the question, if there is still room for competition then what has R/M not offered to provide that Spring Hill wants? Is this a case of R/M not being so easy to negotiate with, or unwilling to let Spring Hill set all of the terms of service? I can probably make some educated guesses but I am waiting on more information.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Something else to think about. If the meetings are to get something from R/M and wmc has no chance to get the service no matter what they propose, that is a poor tactic. Just remeber R/M operated in Scottsdale Az. when they found out about organized opposition they decided to pull out no matter what the vote. The city tried to keep them and they pulled out anyway. This contract is up in three years. If R/M leaves or changes the terms of the service in three years, then what. Spring Hill does not need the rep of not dealing in good faith because of politics or anger. We might find it hard in three years to get anyone to bid for competition.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
About the waits at Williamson. They are expanding their ER which will be done soon. They have opened many more inpatient beds, which was the reason the ER was backed up, there was no where to move the admitted patients to. However, don't you think there will be long wait times at the Spring Hill hospital? They will only have 13 rooms, one of which is a critical care room. MRH has about 17 true ER beds and six of them are critical care beds, and they are having to expand to decrease wait times. So if Spring Hill is going to be bigger than Columbia, don't you think there will be long wait times at this hospital?
Also, one thing that was noted in the CON hearing was that HCA said that they write off the bill of people who cannot pay. Does this mean that if I do not have insurance I can get care there for free. If it does, we need to refer people there who do not have insurance. I truly am interested in this. I will pay for an ad in the Tennessean so people with no insurance will know that HCA will take of them for FREE. Did I just hear this wrong? CA
CA,
I was also at the CON meeting. What Mr. Kloess said was that provisions are made for people who do not have the ability to pay (i.e...insurance, cash in their checking account, assets, etc...). You know as well as I do that insured patients and pay-as-you-go patients have been subsidizing those who cannot pay for years. It's built into what the rest of us pay. Don't be stupid.
You mentioned that we needed to check out how our local members voted regarding the WMC board's decision to appeal. I actually had an in person conversation with Clyde Lynch last night. He stated in no uncertain terms that the appeal was a waste of money and that both he and Rogers Anderson voted against filing an appeal. He said the vote was very close. Clyde Lynch and Judy Hayes (who represent Spring Hill/Williamson County on the Williamson County Commission) also voted against the original resolution the county passed against the hospital. Clyde is an old fella, but I believe he could take you if he knew you were misrepresenting his voting record.
What's with all of this "ya'll" talk anyway? Last time I read your posts, you claimed to be a citizen of Spring Hill. Aren't you one of us? Oh wait......that's right.....you're confused. You think just because your mail comes through the Spring Hill Post Office that that makes you a citizen of Spring Hill. Last time I checked, the southern limits of our city end just before Greens Mill Rd. And what do you know. Oak Lake isn't in Spring Hill now is it? So along with Rural Metro, you don't get Spring Hill police or fire protection either. I guess you're not one of us after all.
Also, is it unheard of for a community hospital to expand the services it offers to the clients served as growth and need necessitate? 94 acres provides an awful lot of room for expansion. Heck, I believe you could probably even fit a cardiac cath lab on 94 acres, maybe even a NICU....eventually. This hospital does not have to solve all of our healthcare problems from day one and can grow with us as our population grows. How many times has WMC and MRH expanded to serve their patient populations? Any reason our HCA hospital couldn't do the same?
Our population has been doubling every five years. There's no good reason why a town of 40,000+ should not have its own hospital; certainly not just because two other providers want to divide the baby and have it all to themselves. "Trust us little Spring Hill Children, we will tell you when you need to have your own healthcare; all in our good timing." Oh PLEASE! Danny's testimony before the board was far from perfect, but he was accurate before the HSDA in stating that neither WMC or MRH have the political will to build a facility to serve all of Spring Hill. Could it be that the reason neither WMC or MRH's representatives invited you to address the HSDA might be that your objectivity might be called into question because of who signs your paycheck? Might you have a problem speaking on behalf of the silent minority of Spring Hill citizens opposed to a hospital since you are in fact, not one?
Why do you feel the need to impune a man's intelligence and character who has done nothing but provide outstanding leadership for the citizens of our city? If you're cut out for public service, how about stepping up to the plate and running for the Maury County Commission? I'm sure the paltry 1,500 citizens Columbia expects to add to its population according to Mr. Otwell will require your expert leadership and representation. (I must confess, when he said that during the hearing, there was an audible gasp in the room as it was a major slam to the citizens of Columbia when he basically said that he didn't expect much future growth in the population of Columbia. I thought the mayor was going to choke on his coffee. Not too flattering Huh?) I would ask why you don't run for Mayor of Spring Hill, but I think we've already established the fact that you don't qualify as you don't live here, do you?
Dear SH citizen and voter,
What a profound dissertation!! Arguing where I live has become a mute point. In fact, it does not matter where I live, as I have stated before. This hospital will affect people in many of the surrounding cities and counties. As far as this being a community hospital, it looks like you all have decided that it is more convenient to call it a community hospital than a FULL SERVICE hospital as you originally stated.
I mean after all, the facts are whatever you guys want them to be for that moment.
Secondly, I had every opportunity to speak at the hearing. In fact many people from WMC's nursing leadership asked me why I did not. I did not speak because I think the citizens who spoke in favor of the hospital made citizens of this area look terrible. Stating that this hospital is needed because you chose to drive yourself or your child to a hospital during a stroke or a seizure does not bode well for establishing credibility. Furthermore, my letter was there, it stated all I needed to say.
As far as Leverette and Lynch go, you can say all day long that they are the best thing ever to happen to Spring Hill. Both are politicians, and like any politician they will say and do what the people that they represent want them to say and do. That is no surprise to me or anyone else. As far as Leverette goes, he is not very articulate, he looks foolish on camera when he is interviewed as he stumbles through syllables, and frankly he is an embarrassment to the city of Spring Hill as he does not but solidify other areas' opinion that the people who live here are nothing but a bunch of rednecks.
Now I have had issues with Huebner, but quite frankly he would represent Spring Hill much more adequately. Even though I was pretty nasty towards him, for which I have apologized, he is very articulate, can plan well (look at all the signatures he got), and he at least gives the appearance that Spring Hill is comprised of intelligent people. My issue with Leverette is seperate from this hospital issue. I think it is a shame that he doesn't even realize how terrible he sounds when he has his short outbursts on camera and in public. You are right, I do not live in the official limits of Spring Hill as defined by boundaries. I am thankful for that at times because I am not represented by a fellow who struggles to get multi syllable words out of his mouth. Now he would be a great President of the Beer Club, but he is not a great represenntative of Spring Hill.
Now you may argue that he has done all these great things for Spring HIll. I would challenge that he has ony done what Duda and some of the other board members have done for him. As far am me running for office, I feel it neccessary to be able to speak my mind freely, rather right or wrong. Many times elected officials cannot say what they want to say because they have to work within the system of politicians they are surrounded by. I would be in the paper everyday because a spade is a spade and wrong. The first thing I would do as Spring Hill mayor would be to get decent schools built that are not next to railroad tracks, try to repair the relationship with Columbia and Franklin because the persecution of Spring Hill angle is getting old, and I would make sure that we are getting a true FULL SERVICE hospital, rather than a band aid station that would be called FULL SERVICE. However those things will require someone who can play the political game well, and quite frankly Duda, Michael Glass, and even Huebner are better suited for that. I would contribute to any of their campaigns, as they at least would represent the city adequately and not make Spring Hill look like Mayberry. CA
I think this bears repeating - that while WMC may be a decent sized hospital NOW, some of us remember when WMC was a *tiny* little medical center at one time too. And as the area grew, so did WMC.
Geeez! Are we going to debate everything but the obvious? The appeal process will shake out a lot of the disinformation that came out each camp during the CON request.
I wish we could all agree that the root of this whole thing is money and marketshare. HCA, WMC and MRH et al want access to affluent pockets. What no one can deny is that there is a lot of money coming into this area and all 3 want it.
What's lost in all the posturing is the actual convenience and need. In hindsight, would it not have been better to open up a bidding process for who would get to place a facility here? 2 of the 3 would still be pissed that they didn't win, but at the very least they all would have agreed that the need was here.
Frankly, I don't care if it says "Taco Bell" on the front of the building. If I don't have to drive to M'boro Rd or the south side of Columbia for healthcare when someone in my family is injured, I'm all for it.
(no offense Taco Bell! Love the Chalupas!)
"In hindsight, would it not have been better to open up a bidding process for who would get to place a facility here? 2 of the 3 would still be pissed that they didn't win, but at the very least they all would have agreed that the need was here."
The HSDA CON process does provide for a 'bidding' process. Once a prospective provider submits a CON request, competing proposals can be submitted and considered as an alternative for up to 15 days.
You are absolutely right. MRH was a small hospital too. However they A) did not claim that they were FULL SERVICE and B) attempted to provide a level of service compatible with the contemporary standard of care. This hospital is not being marketed as a community hospital, but rather a Full service one. However HCA is unwilling to provide full service. It is strange to hear the people that argued so passionately for this hospital now being subdued to "we will take a small one."
They should have allowed bidding for this hospital. However this could not have occured at the CON process because Leverette's mind was already made up, as evidenced by his comments at the CON hearing. Yes this is about not losing money to WMC and MRH, because if they lose significant money then they will be unable to grow their existing services, and MRH will have to close some of its subsidized services. I know that is hard to believe that they are that close to having to close some satellite places, but believe it. You may ask, then why spend the money appealling it? Because the money lost now will be nothing compared to what will be lost if they do not. It is about money for HCA too. There are other towns out there that need a hospital just as much as Spring Hill, who have many more chronically ill people. Why is HCA not jumping at the chance to provide services for them? They are not as well insured as Spring Hill.
As far as Otwell goes, if you had listened closely you would have heard him say that the longer hours were coming very soon. He did not say that they had 12 hours 7 days a week now, he said they would have that soon.
Chandler:
You are one of the most two-faced people I have ever experienced.
First you vicously attack David H.. These attacks are below the belt and mean personal attacks, awful.
You claim he forced people to sign the petition and now you change your mind and say he needs to be mayor.
What is going on? Do you need a stay in the new Thompson Station Hospital. Certainly you do not treat others in that kind of abusive way then cuddle up to them.
And since you hold youself up to be such a brilliant, know-it-all, how can you dare attack Danny for not speaking well and making a postive appearance for our city.
He is a far beter, more inspiring speaker than either the Mayors of Franklin or Columbia. He fights for Spring Hill against any opposition. He is a very smart tactician and much more DO not make the mistake of underestimating Danny L.
Speaking of making the right impression, Chandler, and I do not say this to be cruel as you actually brag about this, but do you set the right example as a health care professional? This impression is especially important as you are so involved in cardiac care (Cath labs). You seem to be close to 100 pounds or more overweight and you are a young man.
Surely, as smart as you are, you realize far more than the rest of us how dangerous it is to your heart and other body parts to be so overweight.
So please don't throw any more personal attacks from your big glass house at the imperfect leaders of Spring Hill.
NEWS FLASH:
When the mad, stubborn people who run MRH and WMC loose the appeal they will not only have to pay their legal bill of a million or more dollars of wasted tax payers dollars BUT they will have to pay HCA's legal bills and all court costs, too. I wonder how much HCA lawyers make?
So they could be wasting several million dollars in legal fees and court costs fighting this appeal they will never win, not one appeal has been reversed yet.
AND, they will create millions of dollars more of bad PR with the people of Spring Hill and Thompson Station. We will bleed all the way to Nashville until we get our own hospital.
We all wonder if this was Otwells's own money or the BD. of Directors own money if they would appeal?
Way to go Anon 1944
What a great argument as to why HCA will win this appeal, because I am fat. Rock On. I cannot think of a more convincing argument for this hospital. I mean we could compare appearances but you hide behind the anonymous tag. I guess it is better to be fat than be a coward. I can see why Danny is your hero!! He is probably pretty good at calling people fat, since it is a one syllable word. I can lose weight, you and Danny cannot grow more synapses.
Secondly, as far as being two faced, I don't like Dave Huebner, but that is not the issue. My statement was that he would be ten times better than Leverette as mayor because he can actually pronounce words that are longer than two syllables. A shrewd man? Are we still talking about Danny Leverette? The same guy who lost his cool in front of the HSDA board? WTF? Oh yeah, it must be because he is SPECALATIN about the future.
So back to the obesity thing. Yes I am fat. I have also lost a great deal of weight. You know why? Because I can see that it is a problem. The difference between you and I is that I can identify things that are terribly wrong, like being fat. You cannot identify someone who is making Spring Hill look like a bunch of redneck billy bobs. Leverette is not a shrewd person, he is redneck as the day is long, and quite frankly if it were not for the people around him propping him up all the time and saving his ass, he would not have made the some of the decent decisions he has.
It does not bother me that people who would endanger their own life "bleeding all the way to Nashville" have some put down about my weight. I mean come on. You would rather die to prove a point than to use some common sense. What a load of garbage. Just like every other threat you guys have thrown at WMC and MRH, it won't happen. Additionally how would we know if you did, we would never be able to identify you because you hide behind the anonymous tag.
Quit being a coward and let's talk about this face to face rather than over a blog where you can be a big, brave man. The truth is I can say it all day long and you are to much of a coward to put your name on here. So I can confidently say that I will be below my normal BMI before we meet face to face.
touchy, touchy, Chandler......looks some someone hit you where it hurts. And it hurts does it not?
And how do you respond, by getting even more crude and hurling even more cutting remarks...
Gurantee one thing, with your temper and thin skin, you wouldn't last long as any kind of a public servant.
You would be challenging the citizens that did not worship you to fist fights every day, probably even the 100 women!
By the way anon, you obviously need the psych eval that will soon be available in Thompson Station. From your own post, let us review this:
Initially you criticize me stating "These attacks are below the belt and mean personal attacks, awful."
And in the very same post you say
" You seem to be close to 100 pounds or more overweight and you are a young man. "
And then you immediately turn around and go back to the "So please don't throw any more personal attacks from your big glass house at the imperfect leaders of Spring Hill" sermon.
It would occur to me that someone who cannot make a point and stick with it may have more trouble than being obese.
If anything I have stuck my neck out and made myself open to criticism, where you have been willing to criticize others but are unwilling to subject yourself to that. Wonder why that is? Do you have so many flaws that it would take forever to state them all? Is it that you couldn't take the insults? Hmmmm?
I am going to dedicate my next post on my site, that gets as many viewers as this site, because I am the guy you guys love to hate, to the newest argument supported by the Spring Hill Hospital group as to why they need the hospital, because CHANDLER ANDERSON IS FAT. I think that is the best argument yet, at least it is factual.
WHo said anything about a fist fight? Not me. I said be a man and lets talk about this face to face. I guess in the Neanderthal language maybe that is what that meant to you. I don't expect anyone to worship me, as there isn't a perfect person on this Earth. It seems that the person you worship is Danny L. You didn't hit a sore spot, you just insulted the people who are on this site to actually debate the issue, like Michael, Silverback, and drm. You take their arguments, some of which are very valid, and disgrace them when you have to use a fat joke to make an argument.
So here are the people that have all the things to say on here, by location, by the way I am the one listed from Spring Hill:
1 United States Memphis, Tennessee
2 United States (no city listed)
3 United States Eagleville, Tennessee
4 United States Spring Hill, Tennessee (This is me!)
5 United States La Vergne, Tennessee
6 United States Columbia, Tennessee
7 United States Clarksville, Tennessee
8 United States Chapmansboro, Tennessee
9 United States Memphis, Tennessee
10 United States Culleoka, Tennessee
Gosh chandler you missed me. The only two places I have ever commented from are, my home in Spring Hill or Franklin. I did not make your list. What did I ever do?
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Its a flurry of activity now! Too bad its all ca...let me get my 2 cents in...
To CA: Wow - I had more to say but it is really just getting down to this...your story and website would be great evidence in the CON for the psychiatric hospital...I prefer to be anonymous so I may not serve as evidence in the CON along your side
Watch out, obesity is a serious medical issue with tons of medical dollars spent on complications yearly - good thing you are not really a Spring Hill resident, your obesity statistic may support our need for the hospital some more...but,hey it is good for job security for those of us in the health care industry.
To anony Aug 9 who said "Here's a thought, become your own county. At this point it isn't going to make Williamson and Maury county very upset because Spring Hill has become the problem citizens always bitchin and moanin about something and about how they have been treated unfairly and such and such. Don't you get tired of complaining?
There is no conspiracy theory against Spring Hill. Just because you are not the top priority for everyone everywhere doesn't mean you are being done wrong. Create your own county, that would be best and get the hell out of ours. Good riddence, Tired of all your bitchin."
I SAY That is a great idea - if only TN constitution would allow it, unfortunately, it is against state constitution to refigure county lines. I am sure most of us would love to be our own county...especially since I moved to get away form the Maury County ignorance...only to haunted by it because I still live in Spring hill, just on the Williamson side of things...just can't seem to escape idiotism! I thought I was moving to Thompsons Station, but it is Spring Hill! Seems to me you are the one bitchin.... Oh and I found that yes there is a lot of jealousy of Spring Hill...see when you move to Williamson county from little ol Maury most of your friends think you are really moving up!!! Been there, done that. Grew up in maury. I laugh about it now, but used to think it too when I lived in little ol Maury county..and moved up to Thompsons Station (opps, I mean Spring Hill)
So just get over it and leave Spring Hill alone...we all shit the same.
Firefighter, I was referring to the people that had posted during the last few hours, not all the time. You and I have the same opinion many times, other times we do not. That is what is great about this site.
Now what is not so great is that there are these folks who want to be cowardly and hide behind anonymous tags and hurl insults. I criticize Leverette at the time, but you know what? He knows who is doing it and I am man enough to put my name with it. In fact, without revealing who they are, there are many that HAVE to deal with him in the political arena of Spring Hill who agree that he is not the person who needs to be the face of Spring Hill....
It is amazing that another healthcare provider, as anon apparently is by his comments, can only find my waistline the only valid debate item in this issue. Pretty sad. I also wonder where these guys got that I get mad about what is written on here. The insults that they throw at me just serve to give many of us something to laugh about at work.
The real reason a hospital is needed?
Find out at www.theothersideoftheissue.com/
Hint: CHANDLER ANDERSON IS FAT!!
c,
Whenever a strong point is made on this site you often ignore it.
Please contact your PR people at WMC and MRH and find out how much of our money they are spending on this appeal and how they will justify it to the taxpayers when they loose and have to pay HCA's lawyers as well.
Also, why don't some of the rich Doctors who are making the big money that we taxpayers are supporting pay for this appeal?
Chandler, please find this out for us.
Chandler,
The Mayor has NOTHING to do with the High School in Spring Hill. It is the responsibility of Maury County. There is no "Spring Hill Special School District." If you have problems with the schools you need to complain to The Maury County School Board or your Maury County Commission.
Chandler,
Stop spying on people. Its spooky.
It is amazing to me that when you cannot answer my question you bring up a question that I have already answered and state that I ignored it. I have said over and over that this appeal is going to cost a great deal of money. Your money. However if HCA had not of been given the CON, would we not be in the same situation? Here is a question that will most likely be ignored, Would you be this upset with HCA for appealing? After all MRH and WMC would still need the money to pay for the appeal until it was decided.
I have not ignored the fact that this is going to cost everyone in Maury and Williamson County money either way. If MRH or WMC ever start to lose money and operate in the red, guess what will happen? Taxes go up. If this thing drags out forever, and these two need more money, hypothetically taxes could go up. Whether anyone in the I love HCA camp wants to admit it or not, if Leverette had of approached MRH or WMC, they would have placed a hospital in Spring Hill. You cannot say that they had not thought about doing something eventually, after all MRH is already expanding services there. Leverette went with HCA because they would do it when he wanted it done and it supposedly would not have cost the city a dime. However what this has done is created a situation where everyone may potentialy pay higher taxes. Do you think taxes would possibly go up if MRH or WMC placed a hospital there? Nope.
It is equivalent to this. You are eighteen and you decide you want a new car and you want it now. Your parents say hold off, let us look at all the options and we will get you something that is reliable, consistent, and will meet your needs. Instead you say screw it and go buy a Hummer. Now you realize, oh crap, I wish I had listened because now I am paying more money out than I would have.
Then your parents try to intervene and take the Hummer back and get you into something you can afford and something with a proven track record and you are angry with them because think of all the money you are gonna lose in fees and penalties.
Rushing into things with people you do not know will only get you into trouble. Now I am sure someone will try to complain that I was saying MRH and WMC are the parents of Spring Hill, which is absolutely not what I was saying. This is just the analogy that I used.
The person who suggested bids was right on the money. However as Leverette demonstrated with many issues surrounding healthcare, he was not interested in working with the current providers. He knew that there was strong anti Coumbia and anti Franklin feelings in Spring Hill, and I sure someone told him he could capitalize on that if he got HCA to come in. A secondary gain would be tax dollars. However these are short term gains, as the county tax rate could potentially go up in both counties if the hospitals are affected. That is not a threat, it is just reality. It is how county owned hospitals work.
He should placed the issue to bid and went with the person who have him the best offer. However he decided beforehand to go with HCA. He made the decision and we all will have to pay the taxes.
For the poster who obviously cannot read well, the passages below discuss the tax issue and the cost. Read the post before you charge I am ignoring an issue.
09 August, 2006 07:54
09 August, 2006 17:26
09 August, 2006 20:50
09 August, 2006 23:09
Here is a question EVERYONE on this site has chosen to ignore. Since Spring Hill does not have an ambulance service, who was on hand during the evacuation the other day? Rural Metro?
If a county hospital starts losing money, the county can sell it. This eliminates the taxpayers from continuing to funnel money into a blackhole.
Yes, they could sell it. However the County Commission would have to agree to that as I understand it. If you think things are tense between Columbia and Spring Hill now, imagine if MRH had to be sold because of all of this mess. Taxes would be hiked way up long before the hospital would ever be sold. Keep in mind that the county commissioners did not want this HCA hospital to start with.
Not everyone has ignored the ambulance question. It has lead to me to many questions that I cannot get answered. Reread comments 8/10 @ 12:18, 16:09, 16:23. Before I get jumped on for being negative these are real questions that need to be addressed.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
Firefighter, I was really addressing the people in the HCA lovefest. I know you know who responded. By the way, here is an article from today's Tennessean that shows what a great neighbor HCA is.
HURRICANE, W.Va. — A judge has temporarily halted HCA Inc.'s plan to cease all inpatient services at Putnam General Hospital and reduce the facility to an urgent-care center.
Putnam County Circuit Judge O.C. Spaulding issued a preliminary injunction on Thursday ordering the Nashville-based hospital chain to resume admitting overnight patients and immediately halt any reduction of services, "including but not limited to failure to admit patients and administer emergency care."
The injunction was sought by a local group called Save Our Hospital Committee, which claims that HCA Inc.'s plan is an attempt to speed up the hospital's $15 million sale to Charleston Area Medical Center. The group is led by former state Sen. Oshel Craigo.
"They're trying to hold this little community hostage to get some favorable treatment to accelerate this sale," said Harvey Peyton, Save Our Hospital Committee's lawyer.
Mark Foust, a HCA Inc. spokesman, said the company's attorneys were reviewing the group's lawsuit and he did not know whether HCA Inc. would change its policies regarding patient admittance.
HCA Inc. had announced last week that it planned to convert Putnam General to an urgent care center because of plummeting patient intakes, high staff turnover and a $2.4 million operating loss in 2005. The company blamed Dr. John King, a surgeon targeted by a flood of malpractice lawsuits, for the hospital's problems.
The proposed sale to CAMC was announced on Monday. Dave Ramsey, president and chief executive officer of CAMC, has said the deal needs emergency approval from the state Health Care Authority to maintain health-care services. If the sale is approved, CAMC would then begin the full process to obtain a certificate of need to operate Putnam General, which normally takes about 60 days.
"There's an easy way to end the uncertainty that the community is facing," Foust said. "And that is for the state to grant the request for emergency certificate of need."
Save Our Hospital Committee also argues that Putnam General needs a certificate of need to reduce operations or close. Sonia Chambers, chairwoman of the Health Care Authority, said that issue is "a bit of a gray area."
"Everybody (who has ever closed a hospital) has come before us at least with a letter telling us what they were doing," Chambers said Thursday. "But we have not received anything from HCA in regard to the closing of the hospital."
Chambers had said earlier this week that the Health Care Authority will "act as quickly as the law allows us" to consider CAMC's proposed purchase of Putnam General. •
For those of you who attest to HCA's undying love for children:
Background Informaton (for those new to the site)
A week before Christmas, parents were given a letter that stated that HCA has decided to close the Ready! Set! Grow! childcare facility here in Independence. The letter stated that they would be closing the facility on, or before, January 28th.
Needless to say, we were devastated by the news. A river of tears flowed that day, and in the days that followed. Those tears brought parents together, and we decided that we couldn’t let our precious daycare die.
I’m sure that most of you have children. I’m sure that there were countless times that you’ve moved mountains for them. Being so young and helpless, they need us to provide safety and love. It’s safety and love that will help them grow into productive, loving and caring adults…an important foundation for a thriving community.
We’ve been saying, “save the daycare”, but really what we want to do is save the women that work there. We are so passionate about our daycare, not because it’s where we happen to have our kids, but because of the women who make the daycare run. They are a unique group of individuals that operate together like a well-oiled machine. Each one of them has a special talent. One is known as the potty-training lady; one is known as the song teacher; one is known as the baby hugger and kisser…and that just barely scratches the surface of their awesome and unique talents. They are a family! Our children are a part of their family…we are a part of their family.
So now, we stand together…and before you…as a group of parents that need to move a mountain. That mountain is HCA. Here are a few facts that you need to be aware of:
1) HCA says that they surveyed employees to find out how, and if, they utilized the daycare.
a) To this date, we have not found a single daycare parent that saw such a survey.
b) We have found a few hospital employees that did see the survey, but did not understand the impact of the survey…and therefore, did not fill it out. Of those employees, none were daycare parents.
2) HCA says the daycare is underutilized.
a) If you open your packet to page ___, you’ll see the number of kids, both employee and non-employee, that utilize the daycare on a daily basis. There are a total of 6 classrooms, and 4 of them are fully utilized every day.
3) HCA originally said that they would keep the daycare open for three years, and that they would move to the new location once it was ready.
a) They said that prior to the TIF being approved. Now that it’s been approved, they’ve gone back on their word.
HCA is building a $250 million dollar state-of-the art facility. They’ve received $41.3 million dollars in tax increment financing (TIF) from the City of Independence. The city council voted 4-3 in support of that financing. It was such a close vote because some of were very concerned about the effect that HCA would have on our city… rightfully so.
Here’s what we want! We want HCA to keep the daycare open for a little longer so that we can work together to transition the daycare from them to us, the parents. We have so many different ideas on how it could be done, but we need time to develop the details and then time to make the transition. We don’t want any of the ladies to loose their health benefits, so we’ll need time to find an affordable package that meets their needs. We need time to obtain all the legal documents, seek funding, and become an accredited daycare, if necessary. HCA is a multi-million dollar company. Surly they can afford to say open a little longer.
If HCA closes the facility, then we’ll loose these wonderful women and the children that have come to love them.
We ask that you…parents, citizens, and others…be a voice for us by providing your thoughts in our guestbook or sending mail to those listed on our contact list. We’re not asking for, or demanding, unreasonable requests. Just give us the chance to keep our daycare, and improve the community!
Keep in mind that there is power in large groups! We must all be united in our resolve to save our beloved day care!
http://www.saveourdaycare.org/
I was puttting that out there for anyone that can answer the specific questions. I do not consider " it just takes time, and do not worry it is all being taken care of" to be answers. I am a professional in this field, so I can understand a little above the lay person on this topic.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
CA,
Is it safe to say that you won't be mailing a Christmas card to Larry Kloess this year?
There must be a wound somewhere you received in your HCA past. Were you mistreated? Abused? Underappreciated? Unloved? Who hurt you? Where is the root of hatred and bitterness you are expressing in your posts? Tell us about your childhood. Do you need a hug?
Imagine if you could channel your hatred of HCA into something more positive. You might actually make a positive contribution to your community.
Look, if HCA comes here, as a private business, I would expect them to close if they can't maintain a financial vitality. What's the point of your posting these articles. We all seem to understand that a private business is coming to give us a closer-to-home option in health care. Private businesses can't operate on a constant loss like government institutions often do. If it sinks, its HCA's loss and we are back where we started. If what happened in the above community were to happen here, at least we would have an urgent care facility that was open during the hours when we are all around to use it. Hopefully the county hospitals will become more competitive. Hopefully this competition will push MRH to perform better and change their poor image throughout the county, and Hopefully if WMC is the best facility around then that will be the one people will choose. The HSDA sees this as a community hospital and that is what we need. If it tanks with HCA, WMC or MRH can come and offer to take it over.
CA,
Please take a moment to review this link:
How do I link to another Web Page in my comment?
Most appreciative,
Silverback
CHANDLER,
Again, as usual, you ignore issues like how much MRH and WMC will spend on this appeal and how they will pay HCA's legal fees when they loose.
You are like a broken record....
But in Proganda 101 class and Brainwashing 101 class we learned that if you keep making a bunch of noise, keep repeating the same lies and misinformation and almost never answer any pretinent questions you can confuse some of the people much of the time.
Chandler, answer us another tough question and do not hide from it.
How much money are you making for all this propanganda work, this is not just a hobby for you to spend your spare time?
If not pay, who is paying for your legal council?
If not pay, what promotions are you getting for this work for WMC?
Who are your information sources at WMC and MRH that feed you all this or do you just think of all this stuff yourself?
Again, no one has answered the questions I have posed. Just more attacks and conspiracy theories. I answered how MRH and WMC will get the money they need, they will raise taxes. I do not know how much they are spending, but I am sure it is not cheap. However ultimately it will be our responsibility as taxpayers to make up the difference.
As far as my relationship with HCA goes, I have explained this before. Keep in mind that HCA offered me a scholarship less than six months ago. So if this was some other company selling you a batch of spoiled goods, I would be looking at them too. Silverback I know how to post a link. However you all seem to have blinders on to anything that is not saying HCA is the best thing ever. So at least you have the information in your face to read it. Tammy, if you would "settle" for an urgent care clinic, why do you guys not use what you have now?
Finally to the person who questioned what I am getting out of this. First of all MRH and WMC would be just as happy if I didn't post on here. People from both places have told me that I am wasting my time arguing with people who are so insincere that they hide behind user names and anonymous. So as far as getting any "kickback" I am not. This is something I do because I think it is pretty funny to see you all dodge the important questions and then accuse me of dodging questions, when I have answered everyone that you have thrown at me. Also I do it because (look at the other topics) the site would not have the traffic it does if someone didn't provide a counter to the HCA lovefest going on here. I also do it because I am saving you all's posts because ten years down the road when HCA screws you guys over, like they do everyone else, I will post these on a site for you to review. It is dangerous for you all to claim to need a full service hospital and then accept something that is not full service. Also no one is paying my legal fees. I have talked to my attorney about this and it would make me very happy to get sued by HCA. They will not do it though. You know why? HCA, the government, and I have dealt with some of their business practices recently, and I gaurantee you they do not want to go down that road again.
As far as promotions, the only promotion I have received during this was in the works well before this hospital issue came up, and quite frankly the fact that I even entertain the cowardly people who post anonymously was not a shining spot on my record at WMC.
As far as who feeds me this stuff? The numbers used come from HCA and MICHAEL. Despite what you all think, I am not an idiot that does not have the ability to research things themselves. Since you are all about questions that are not answered, I will YET AGAIN post the questions every damn one of you has avoided since this topic was posted:
1) Is the primary service area 200,000 or the five mile radius around Spring Hill?
2) Why was 200,000 used to justify "need" and the five mile radius used to justify "orderly development?"
3) Would you be this upset if HCA had lost and were appealling? The county hospitals would have legal fees then too.
4) If you do not have ambulance coverage as has been the lamentation you have used a blue million times, who was covering the evacuation the other day?
5) Why did Leverette not go to WMC or MRH for a bid on building a hospital? Why did he go straight to HCA, even though a bid process would have been much less contraversial?
6) Here's a question, how does it feel to know you have to pay WMC and MRH's legal fees and there is NOTHING you can do about it?
7) Why do people in Spring Hill not use what is here now? If there is this overhwhelming need, why are the current facilities, both HCA and MRH not used?
8) Why are you so upset with the opposing viewpoint? If everything is on the upp and up you should have nothing to worry about at the appeal hearing.
Obviously your passion and trust for HCA is not going to be change from anything I say. I could show you a verified picture of Leverette and Larry burning a cross in the yard of a convent and you would still try to make up some excuse. So here's the deal, just like the folks say at WMC and MRH, yapping on here with cowardly people IS a waste of time. SO I am going to contact other people who have been screwed over by HCA and have them become active in this issue. Maybe when you see someone from other states and counties telling you the same thing, maybe you can break the suction of your HCA liplock and actually listen.
Again, no one has answered the questions I have posed. Just more attacks and conspiracy theories. I answered how MRH and WMC will get the money they need, they will raise taxes. I do not know how much they are spending, but I am sure it is not cheap. However ultimately it will be our responsibility as taxpayers to make up the difference.
As far as my relationship with HCA goes, I have explained this before. Keep in mind that HCA offered me a scholarship less than six months ago. So if this was some other company selling you a batch of spoiled goods, I would be looking at them too. Silverback I know how to post a link. However you all seem to have blinders on to anything that is not saying HCA is the best thing ever. So at least you have the information in your face to read it. Tammy, if you would "settle" for an urgent care clinic, why do you guys not use what you have now?
Finally to the person who questioned what I am getting out of this. First of all MRH and WMC would be just as happy if I didn't post on here. People from both places have told me that I am wasting my time arguing with people who are so insincere that they hide behind user names and anonymous. So as far as getting any "kickback" I am not. This is something I do because I think it is pretty funny to see you all dodge the important questions and then accuse me of dodging questions, when I have answered everyone that you have thrown at me. Also I do it because (look at the other topics) the site would not have the traffic it does if someone didn't provide a counter to the HCA lovefest going on here. I also do it because I am saving you all's posts because ten years down the road when HCA screws you guys over, like they do everyone else, I will post these on a site for you to review. It is dangerous for you all to claim to need a full service hospital and then accept something that is not full service. Also no one is paying my legal fees. I have talked to my attorney about this and it would make me very happy to get sued by HCA. They will not do it though. You know why? HCA, the government, and I have dealt with some of their business practices recently, and I gaurantee you they do not want to go down that road again.
As far as promotions, the only promotion I have received during this was in the works well before this hospital issue came up, and quite frankly the fact that I even entertain the cowardly people who post anonymously was not a shining spot on my record at WMC.
As far as who feeds me this stuff? The numbers used come from HCA and MICHAEL. Despite what you all think, I am not an idiot that does not have the ability to research things themselves. Since you are all about questions that are not answered, I will YET AGAIN post the questions every damn one of you has avoided since this topic was posted:
1) Is the primary service area 200,000 or the five mile radius around Spring Hill?
2) Why was 200,000 used to justify "need" and the five mile radius used to justify "orderly development?"
3) Would you be this upset if HCA had lost and were appealling? The county hospitals would have legal fees then too.
4) If you do not have ambulance coverage as has been the lamentation you have used a blue million times, who was covering the evacuation the other day?
5) Why did Leverette not go to WMC or MRH for a bid on building a hospital? Why did he go straight to HCA, even though a bid process would have been much less contraversial?
6) Here's a question, how does it feel to know you have to pay WMC and MRH's legal fees and there is NOTHING you can do about it?
7) Why do people in Spring Hill not use what is here now? If there is this overhwhelming need, why are the current facilities, both HCA and MRH not used?
8) Why are you so upset with the opposing viewpoint? If everything is on the upp and up you should have nothing to worry about at the appeal hearing.
Obviously your passion and trust for HCA is not going to be change from anything I say. I could show you a verified picture of Leverette and Larry burning a cross in the yard of a convent and you would still try to make up some excuse. So here's the deal, just like the folks say at WMC and MRH, yapping on here with cowardly people IS a waste of time. SO I am going to contact other people who have been screwed over by HCA and have them become active in this issue. Maybe when you see someone from other states and counties telling you the same thing, maybe you can break the suction of your HCA liplock and actually listen.
http://www.hcawatchcalifornia.org/
Chandler,
With people like you who needs communists.
Your latest post on your site about HCA changing the offerings of a hospital in West Virginia and your support of the group against HCA is classic communist/socialist rable rousing.
Obviously you hae never run your own business. You are the classic do gooder using everybody elses money, in this case county money.
Here some shocking news: medicine is a business not the rite of every citizen as it is in communist countries where they die waiting for almost everything and in soclaisit countires like Canada where socialized medicine has about bankrupt the country. In Candad anyone who can afford it comes to the USA for medcal treatment where medicine is a business.
I suppose you also beleive that everyone in the US should be given a car and all the food they need and a nice little house and that private capitalist companies like GM, John Mahrer Builders and General Foods should be taken over by Williamson and Maury County!
Chandler, go raise some money from private investors, put a second mortgage on your house, sell yours cars, get a Yugo and open a Cath Lab somewhere and treat all the poor and lonely and illegals amoungst us, with your own money. Then come back and tell us about how evil HCA is.
WOW, Now I am a communist. So a fat, two faced, Communist. How great!! Still did not address the questions that were posed. Seems to me that Communists used to work in shadows under code names, like anonymous, right?
You bring up a good debate that could be carried out on this page. Is healthcare a right or a privilege?
Being a communist and all, I beleive that people who can work should work. Just because you drink too much or you chose to use drugs, that does not make you disabled. If you have had some tragic injury, have some debilitating chronic illness (not chronic back pain), or have some debilitating mental illness, sure you should get disability and help with your healthcare. However if you are just too lazy to work, tough luck!!
This debate is about whether HCA will provide what they say they are going to provide, a FULL SERVICE hospital. It seemed to anger you Mr. Anonymous that I posted an article describing something that is going on RIGHT NOW in a town that is the FASTEST GROWING TOWN in the area, where HCA just walked out on the town.
I am not the classic dogooder who uses everyone elses money, I can assure you. I have worked full time since I was 16, managed to get three scholarships to college, and have consistently worked two to three jobs ever since. I have not ever asked for anyone's help and hopefully my family and I never will have to. So before you decide to attack my work ethic and intentions, maybe you should do a little research dumbass!!
By the way, with all of your fury and intelligence, why did you dodge the questions I posed? CA
By the way anonymous, how many poor people do you see hiring illegal aliens? Probably not many.
The only reason they are a problem is because the US wants to be everybody's buddy rather than closing the borders and taking care of our own problems.
I bet none of the rich folks at HCA have any illegal aliens working for them right? I bet it is the CEOs of the county owned hospitals that are so loaded with money that they can hire these illegals.
CA - you make good arguments buddy, but don't break your arm patting yourself on the back because no one has "answered" your questions. It's not 'cause you stumped us.
Here, let me give it a shot...
re selective info in the CON - HCA was trying to tell the story it wanted to get the decision it wanted. Haven't you ever heard of "spin"? It makes sense that companies will be selective on the info they provide in requests like this. It's a means to an end. A tactic. (by the way, your guilty of spinning too, by posting "closing the day care" thing. C'mon! Why don't you just say, "they're clubbing baby seals!" It causes the same effect. If you want to show some degree of rationalism, tell us something you think HCA does well.)
Don't you think that WMC or MRH did the same in listing their reasons "why there shouldn't be" a hospital here?
waste of tax dollars - WMC and MRH are for the most part, self-sustaining entities. Their operating budgets probably take into account legal actions as a cost of doing business. The $'s they spend fighting this thing only leaves less in the pool to defend against other types of legal actions that they typically fight. It's probably worth considering though that they'll need some specialized representation in this fight and it might cost them more. I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't come back to either county comm sometime later with "hat in hand" asking for money. Doubt we'll feel any immediate tax effect from this. "Frugal" and "Government" are two words that are rarely used together. Lucky us.
Let's get to the root of this thing... Be honest, you've obviously been burned by HCA in the past professionally and it's understandable that would manifest itself in how vehement you would argue against their plans in your/our community. It's okay to not like the way HCA does business. But be careful of attacking the elected officials that are trying to make this town livable. Public service is a pretty damn thankless job if you ask me.
Leverette, Duda, Eliot, etc. are all trying to do something different for this community. So you don't agree with their politics. Well, guess what? A lot of us do. Do something more than personally attacking them. I think it pretty poor taste to insinuate their grudges or personal feelings towards MRH or Columbia in this whole debate without proof. I wouldn't underestimate these guys. I think their heart is in the right place and they will try to do the right thing.
Fundamentally Chandler, your lack of objectivity hurts your arguments. Some of us see through it.
-yours respectfully,
Anonymous8/11 12:51
Anonymous,
Yet again, someone refuses to read through the postings or get familiar with my stance on things. I have said time after time that Duda does a tremendous job and is one of the few members of the BOMA that actually acknowledge that there is another side to the argument that needs to be looked at. I don't recall ever having made any comment about Elliot as I have never met him or talked with him.
Leverette is an redneck who happened to become mayor. You cannot tell me that he represents the intelligence of Spring Hill citizens. Come on!!
At least you acknowledge that HCA is using spin in their CON. You would be the first to do so. It isn't spin about closing the day care center. I just talked to a few of those folks tonight, and the situation was anything but spin. Look at the hca site I linked up. Those are not spin issues either.
I have admitted HCA screwed me over. However after they did three of their top officials were either transferred or fired because of it. So while I do not love HCA, before this they offered me a scholarship and a job. So they do things well when it comes to making money. That is something they do well.
You are right, you will not feel the pinch of taxes anytime soon, but if it is needed, you know it will be done.
So you answered three of the questions. Where are the rest?
Okay Chandler, I'll play...
1) Is the primary service area 200,000 or the five mile radius around Spring Hill?
From Gorilla's post prior to the hearing:
"'Primary Service Area' usually includes the County that the proposed hospital will be located. For this application, the standard "Primary Service Area" can not be as easily determined because of the nature of the county line bisecting Spring Hill city limits. The CON Application clearly states that the hospital will attract primarily the part of their population that resides within 5 miles of Spring Hill."
2) Why was 200,000 used to justify "need" and the five mile radius used to justify "orderly development?"
If you had a copy of the RPC report submitted in April in response to HSDA staff's initial questions, it clearly states that in defining the service area for projections, they started by drawing a five mile circle around Spring Hill and identifying the zip-codes that fall within this area. They also recognized that most people in Franklin and Columbia would find current facilities more convenient, so they only gave a 5% market share to SHH from Columbia's 38401 Zip Code and a 15% market share for SHH from Franklin's 37064 zip code. Gooch called this 'gerrymandered' at the CON hearing, I call this being realistic, adding validity to the projections.
The first I heard about Spring Hill having 200,000 projected population came from Robert Otwell's presentation to his board, then repeated by you here and on your site. The CON Application does show a total projected population of 235,000 by 2014 for the six zip-code region surrounding Spring Hill (the green shaded area of the map that you keep ignoring which includes a large portion of Franklin and Columbia - over 100,000 people today), a conversation with any commercial marketing research firm will easily confirm this.
3) Would you be this upset if HCA had lost and were appealling? The county hospitals would have legal fees then too.
I'm not upset, nor surprised that WMC and MRH are appealing. However, it is clear that their intent in appealing is not to have a 7-1 decision reversed, rather it is purely to delay the reality that SHH will be built and enable each to capture more market share (money) in the interim. The problem that I have with this strategy is that WMC and MRH are apparently under the impression that we Spring Hill residents aren't smart enough to recognize this motive. I sincerely believed that WMC made a brilliant investment in the NICU unit, ensuring that we would see less of those Baptist Hospital Stork Signs throughout Spring Hill neighborhoods; now I'm not so sure. Instead of investing in more NICU beds, or a 128 slice VCT to compete with SHH's 64 slice unit, WMC has shown that their priority is to pay Gooch and gang during this appeal process. My new prediction: Spring Hill residents will exercise their right to continue going to Baptist to have babies, and that is a shame.
4) If you do not have ambulance coverage as has been the lamentation you have used a blue million times, who was covering the evacuation the other day?,
Along with Rural Metro, WMC and MRH are presenting a proposal to the Spring Hill Board of Mayor and Aldermen this Monday evening at 7:30 PM. There is no doubt that the WMC and MRH proposal has changed significantly since last year's MRH proposal. What hasn't changed? MRH insisting to use the Neapolis ambulance for convalescence calls.
5) Why did Leverette not go to WMC or MRH for a bid on building a hospital? Why did he go straight to HCA, even though a bid process would have been much less contraversial?
This may come to surprise to you, but MRH and WMC were given opportunities before HCA to build a facility in Spring Hill. Although you'll never hear it from Mayor Leverette, MRH did pass on several sites last fall to build a facility in Spring Hill. Williamson County officials have intimated that WMC would never build a facility south of 840. Additionally, when TriStar submitted their CON Application, MRH and WMC were able to submit competing proposals for consideration as an alternative by the HSDA board.
6) Here's a question, how does it feel to know you have to pay WMC and MRH's legal fees and there is NOTHING you can do about it?
At the end of the appeal process, they'll be paying HCA's fees as well.
7) Why do people in Spring Hill not use what is here now? If there is this overhwhelming need, why are the current facilities, both HCA and MRH not used?
I too heard Otwell say that the Urgent Care clinic is open until 5:00, however when I went there two months ago at 4:30, the doors were closed. The Vandy walk-in clinic will be utilized when people realize it is open (from the view from Campbell Station Parkway, the building looks completely vacant). Contrary to what you are hearing, the Centennial Clinic is being utilized. Finally, Spring Hill Family Health Group will never get any of my family's business because of this letter.
8) Why are you so upset with the opposing viewpoint? If everything is on the upp and up you should have nothing to worry about at the appeal hearing.
I, for one, am not concerned about your opposing viewpoint, except when you grossly distort (or ignore) the facts or when others refuse to recognize the city that Spring Hill will become. The appeal hearing will proceed regardless of how much we argue the projections.
I'll end my involvement in this debate with a quote from Dr. Caldwell from the HSDA hearing which you seem to conveniently ignore:
"Need is based on population figures that are disagreeable, but even with a conservative growth rate, both of the hospitals in opposition will be back here by 2010 when this hospital opens."
Silverback,
Thanks for entertaining the questions. Now I have some for you.
1) Would you be as upset if HCA were appealing and the two hospitals were having to use county funds to fight that?
2) You did not answer who was covering (By the way, the number of calls per day have not changed much at all)
3) Caldwell was right. There will also be a third hospital there requesting more beds as well, SHH. Would you not agree?
4) Would you agree that HCA did not do a good job in writing this CON? There were many errors and many questionable statements.
5) Would you not agree that the HSDA's 7-1 vote may have had a CYA etiology, given that Bredesen wants to stop the whole CON process?
Silverback, thanks for debating this. I wish more folks would do the same rather than trying to prove I am a communist or some other bizarre thing.
1. No. Given the history of appeals, if SHH had been declined by the HSDA, HCA would probably loose an appeal and have to pay for MRH and WMC.
2. I have no idea as our great local media outlets seems to have missed this one. I presume from the tone of your question that WMC covered this Maury County location.
3. Yes, but that's because I believe that the 17% CAGR projected by HCA will actually proove to be less then the growth that we will actually experience.
4. No. I thought it was written much better then the boiler plate CON request WMC submitted for each stage of their expansion, each time projecting Spring Hill population in 2010 to be 9,000 people.
5. No. I thought the vote was affirmation that the growth Spring Hill is experiencing (no matter how you look at it) will benefit everyone involved: HCA, WMC and MRH.
Thanks for replying Silverback, I appreciate your honesty and your interest into looking at all sides of this issue. CA
Silverback and Michael,
I keep hearing that an appeal has never been overturned. However my understanding is that all appeals may not make it back to the HSDA. With the volume of appeals that occur (by looking at the HSDA web site) is it possible that some appeals are overturned by the administrative law judge and never make it back to the board? It is not required that the board rehear the case. If the judge deems that the applicant does not meet the requirements of the CON, then the decision is made, right? I could be wrong, as I have had the time to look into all avenues of this situation. CA
Here is an interesting site for both sides :
http://www.comptroller.state.tn.us/sa/reports/pa04026.pdf
CHANDLER, GET A LIFE!
Yet another response from the intelligent readers of this site.
Chandler,
Please ask someone from MRH and WMC to respond to our concerns, so that they do not furhter ruin any chance they will ever have here in Spring Hill.
Here's is why: Spring Hill will be the largest city south of Nashville and will have a great deal of influence and her people will NOT want to go to MRH or WMC or any of their clinics here and they will then have wasted even that many more millions of county tax dollars.
You are making matters so much worse and we all know you are there officially endorsed sniper, camo-fighter. We know for a fact you are meeting with the leaders of WMC and we can only assume taking your marching orders. If you are not discussing this with them let us know, now.
Anonymous,
I can see you feel so strongly about this issue that you are willing to associate your name with your post.
Frankly I have yet to discuss my postings on this site with the officers of WMC. As I have said before, my comments are my own, and they are not related to my job at WMC. Quite honestly if I were to discuss this site with them, they would probably question why I am wasting my time trying to explain things to eight or less people who are so passionate about their opinions that they refuse to associate their names with their comments.
You guys sought out HCA. I cannot believe that you still expect WMC and MRH to just go down without a fight. That may be how people who post on this site under anonymous operate, but it is not how people who are responsible for the well being of several counties should operate.
I have a hard time believing that you will be missed when you institute your "boycott" of WMC and MRH. The chronic persecution of Spring Hill by the surrounding cities bit is way past old. The us versus them thing is childish, and if anything is hurting the situation it is the personal manner in which you are addressing this appeal. HCA would have appealled the decision if they had lost.
Why don't you follow SIlverback's lead and actually try to debate the issue versus attacking me? Your refusal to address the questions I have posed clearly demonstrates your lack of concern regarding this issue. Rather than offer a forum for debate, you have transitioned this site into a forum to display your high school name calling antics.
The only reason I keep posting is that it kills those of you who just can't stand the fact that your bitchfest is interrupted by someone who has valid arguments against this hospital. For example, after this post, there will be more posts attacking my character and my intentions, and less than five posts actually addressing the questions I have posed. This reflects the lack of understanding of the issue by most who post here.
Don't trip and fall as you lurk in the shadows. With the absurd boycott and all you would have a long way to drive if you were injured.
State Laws pertaining to Health Services and Development Agency are found under Legal Resources, TN Code Annotated #68-11-1601 through #68-11-1625 at the following site:
http://198.187.128.12/tennessee/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0
68-11-1610. Hearings on agency decision - Petition - Procedure - Arbitration and mediation alternatives - Orders - Costs.
And Administrative Rules in addition to the previous statutes:
RULES
OF
HEALTH SERVICES AND DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
CHAPTER 0720-13
RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR HEARING CONTESTED CASES
http://www.state.tn.us/sos/rules/0720/0720-13.pdf
Thanks, I thought LexisNexis might be the place. CA
Chandler,
When I said we'd have more than we have now, I meant an urgent care facility that doesn't close at 4:30 and is open on the weekends when our kids get hurt. All the times I have children who are injured it seems to be a holiday, a weekend, or after 5pm when all school work and chores are done. With the things I've heard about MRH I hesitate to trust them with my children. If the Vanderbilt Clinic keeps good hours and has an urgent care clinic I will probably use it the next time we need one. Hospitals are open 24/7 as you know and it does make me glad that eventually we will have one.
Chandler,
We happen to know that you do discuss what you do on this site and in the media with the leadership of WMC.
Come on Chandler, we have moles inside WMC and MRH.
Please do not expect us to be so stupid that we would believe that you do not discuss this with any of them and do not take direction and get information from them. You know too much.
They are thrilled with what you are doing on this site and to a lesser degree your site.
And, by the way, who pays for your legal representation to keep you and your site out of hot water?
c,
You make no legitimate points about why we should not have a hospital, you attack our excellent Mayor, you attack our excellent citizen leaders.
If you are so lame to think that Columbia and Franklin would not like to keep Spring Hill down than you do not need to be working in a cath lab. There is a decades long history of them doing just that to Spring Hill, they are still trying to do it.
Starting with Mayor George Jones and especially with Mayor Ray Williams and now with `no backing down' Mayor Danny, we no longer take their crap but defeat them.
But you know little or nothing of Spring Hill, you are from Lewisburg, speaking of a city controlled by a couple people.
You are a puppet, rable rouser for WMC and MRH and nothing more.
I hate to distract everyone from the some what hostile discussion. Can someone confirm that the ems proposals are going to be talked about at the boma meeting Monday night.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
7:00 at the BOMA Public Work Session in the Conference Room at City Hall.
Thank You very much.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
CA
Can you find out from your `sources' how much WMC & MRH have budgeted for the legal fees and court costs for this appeal?
I am a little suprised with all of the talk about Spring Hill not having ems that the boma meeting tonite would not have generated more interest. Does anyone know if this is the last round of proposals before a final decision? If that is the case then I hope this is not just a rubber stamp for a decision made long ago.
I still question why on July 21 on the career builder website R/M clearly stated that they were hiring EMTs and Paramedics for their new Spring Hill operation. THis add has not run since then and now all three services are submitting proposals. If this is not a rubber stamp, what has changed since then?
Some thoughts to consider before tonite.
- The first contract for ems will most likely expire about the time that the hospital is opened. This means that the ems service picked will still be transporting to Columbia, Franklin or Nashville. The ems crews will be your health care providers during an emergency.
- The ems service will need to work with the fire dept. Currently the fire dept operates at an EMT level of care under protocals written by WMC. The ems service must continue this.
- The ems service must not allow convelescent runs. The units must be dedicated to emergency runs only. They should not be allowed to transport stable patients to other HCA facilities to be admitted. Rural Metro clearly states that they use emergency contracts to expand market share for convelescent services. Maury also needs to stop using the units for convelescent runs. The only service that does no convelescent calls is WMC.
- The crews hired to staff the Spring Hill units must have emergency experience. The hiring process must include more than just paper qualifications. It must include testing of practical skills. I can promise that the level of skill required for emergency care and convelescent care is different. This could be especialy important for all of those who boycott MRH and WMC and insist on going to Nashville.
These are just some thoughts, there are many more factors to consider. It is a fact that most of these considerations do not become real until someone is on the cot in the ambulance.
Above all else I would hope that the feelings about the hospital do not enter into tonite. We must seperate this from the appeal. The proposals must be judged on merit.
be safe all
ole fire fighter
WRONG ol'firefighter.
There is no way to separate the fact that WMC and MRH are doing everything they can to keep us from having our own hospital and yet give them the chance to transport us anywhere!
Rural/Metro does an excellent job in cities far larger than Franklin or Columbia.
WMC and MRH should kiss Spring Hill good-bye. They have burnt both of their bridges coming into this incredible city.
They might have had a prayer to regain some of Spring Hill's people but after filing the appeal they have nothing but ill will.
Yeah, and I weary of Chandler making fun of Mayor Danny just because he talks like a good ole' boy.
I think he has served us well.
Who cares if they lose Spring Hill. Spring Hill is only great in the minds of its citizens. Spring Hill... The town where bomb threats interrupt the work day, children's homes are without volunteers, kids are without classrooms while their teacher is out campaigning for a hospital, officers are pulling people over for going two miles over the speed limit, where people get on blogs and cuss the people who disagree with the majority, where people don't even have the courtesy to not litter, where big box stores run the small businesses out of town, a place where there is no appreciation of the past or the old timers, yep, the loss will be great!
ca adn sponsors,
You are such a big baby.
Many of the quotes on your site, (which has got to be one or more of the following: owned/paid for/supported by WMC and MRH) were made by me and I have never worked for HCA in my life. Never worked for the health care industry.
And here is a big reason why you are such a phony..you abused your rites on the SpringHillAlternate site by hogging most of the space and then do not let anyone post on yours.
Really you exhibit the classic character traits of a bully and now throw in cry-baby.
To say HCA owns this website is silly.
You and your sponsors are now leaving the site because you can't handle the heat of the questions we are asking of you.
But you will be reading all this and your blood pressure will be rising.
Enjoy.
Dennis Phillips, a Franklin Alderman who abstained in the vote to oppose Spring Hill Hospital, has filed a HIPPA complaint against Dennis Miller and WMC:
Franklin alderman accuses Williamson Medical CEO of violating healthcare privacy laws
Here's more from his own site:
HIPPA Violation?
"In 2004 I was hospitalized at Williamson Medical Center. Dennis Miller came to my hospital room after my surgery and tried to persuade me to write a letter, or sign one they would write, stating my disagreement with a hospital requesting a certificate of need in Brentwood, TN"
To answer Gorilla's Question from the
Follow the $$$ Post:
"When did this process become about blackmail, intimidation and 'strings' on various city projects?"
It sounds like the pattern of intimidation with WMC began long ago...
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